Mr. John Murphy:

This is how it appears to the workforce and to us. Fares increase but a profit is never made by any CIE company. We believe if it got to that stage, the subvention would be cut. I was involved in the process which removed more than €11 million from Dublin Bus in the past year just to try to break even. There will be projected subvention payments and contractual obligations. The company keeps coming back, stating its hands are tied because the subvention has been cut and it needs efficiencies and cost savings. This is then done by the workforce. We will not make an apology here; we try to protect the terms and conditions.