Mr. John Murphy:

I wish to respond to several issues raised by Senator Barrett. He listed the subvention and capital investment in CIE companies in recent years. He did not mention that, excluding the cost-saving measures implemented in 2013 in Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus, €170 million has been taken out of the three companies in efficiencies over the past ten years. Of this more than €65 million has come out of Dublin Bus. Government-commissioned reports by experts and consultants, which is not a great word at present, have been glowing but various Governments have ignored them. They show Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann are efficient and work in the right way. There is a need for open debate. I attended the NTA's workshop consultation two years ago with some of my colleagues. Some of the comments from vested interests were scary. They stated the Ryanair model should be used with competition on profitable routes and that we should ignore the public service. This is a public service. It is not a profit-making organisation. The companies are not allowed to make profit at present as if they even look like they are making profits, the subvention is cut. We will have private monopolies on profit-making routes. There are only two ways to fund a public service, which are either through public money subvention or passenger fares. If the subvention is reduced, it will automatically increase the fares. This message needs to go out to the people dependent on the service not only for going to work, but for social welfare needs, hospitals and disability. It should be part of the debate.