Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent) | Oireachtas source

The matter is simple. An earlier contributor asked whether Irish Water has learned anything from the past. Has the Oireachtas learned anything? I hate to suggest that we have not.

The difficulty is twofold - a lack of oversight and a lack of access to information. That is a flaw in the legislation brought forward by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and passed by the Oireachtas. I find it hypocritical that many of us are questioning issues raised during Second and Committee Stages in the Seanad and the Dáil and the legislation was voted through. I did not think we would be back this soon. Irish Water and other similar bodies will appear before this and other committees until such time as we take responsibility, ensure oversight is in place and there is access to information. This is what we voted through and we are where we are as a result. Given that businesses do not like paying water charges, Irish Water will have a very difficult task. There are a few things it can do to help itself.

With regard to the legislation and its flaws, it does the public and Irish Water no service. If Mr. Tierney was to request the Minister to make his body subject to parliamentary questions, that would go a long way to addressing the difficulty. I do not think Irish Water has a board of directors. Is their merit in it having a board of directors to act in the public interest and in terms of oversight? With respect to the kernel, I agree with my good colleague, Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett and others, that the public do not have confidence when large sums are spent on consultants because they cannot quantify, as I cannot, how they can be spent on such a service. I will give one example. Some €5.4 million was spent on governance and regulation. If Irish Water gave a commitment to publish on its website an exact breakdown of that amount, rather than the bland €2 million or €3 million for oversight, the nuts and bolts of the actual money, we would be able to adjudicate. If a certain legal practice sent it a letter to pay €2,000 for the advice or the stamp, that would go some way to addressing the difficulty. I am not in a position to say that the €50 million spent on consultants was value for money or that it will save money ultimately. I do not know because the information is not available. I do not believe people will have confidence in Irish Water until such time as the information is available.

I have a few brief questions following earlier contributions. Senator Landy mentioned that the 34 local authorities have assets of €11 billion. The impression I got from the submission was that there was a sloppy response from local authorities. There is a great differentiation. There is an onus on Irish Water to publish the response from the local authorities. It is outrageous that local authorities had assets in the region of €11 billion and they were not sure what they had or what was happening to them. What other assets have local authorities got? I am a strong advocate of reform of local government as I think it is dysfunctional. Many of the members behind me have come from that system. We have €11 billion worth of assets. The terminology I have written down here includes, "differential" and "not in a complete fashion" or something to that effect. Let us see if there was a difference between county councils. Was the submission from Roscommon County Council in order? What councils defaulted? What was the most valuable asset within the €11 billion. In regard to the outstanding bills for water owed by business, I do not know if a figure has been put on them. I see somewhere that it may be €1 billion or €500 million. Does Irish Water have any idea of the outstanding bills? Will it also quantify the actual outstanding loans? If it has not already quantified that figure, perhaps it would do so now or in the future.

The issue of bonus levels was raised. I believe everybody except the CEO can get it. What is the level of the actual bonus? From a political credibility point of view - I used this line in the past - that we are paying for water anyway so we agree with water charges. By a logical, political and fair extension of that, there should be a yearly total of income taken in by Irish Water. The tax take from the public should be reduced by that figure if we are paying for it, rather than paying on the double.