Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

In my view, the introduction of a supplementary national pension scheme would solve many of the problems we are discussing. I hope we will be able to afford that, from an economic perspective, in the not too distant future. I envisage that employers, employees and the State, perhaps via taxation, would contribute to such a scheme. Such a scheme has been built up over a period of time in countries with more progressive pension situations.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh is right to suggest that much of this needs to be addressed on a pan-European basis. Quite an amount of work was done in this regard during Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the European Union. A number of improvements relating to the protection of workers' pension rights were agreed following approximately 15 years of debate back and forth among the various member states. One such improvement relates to the pension status of people who go from one member state to another to work for a private company. It has been agreed that they will be able to acquire vested rights after a certain period of employment. If someone who has been working for a particular company for seven or eight years leaves that company - this applies to women, in particular - his or her pension entitlement goes with him or her. The Irish Presidency succeeded in getting that across the line. A vast amount of work was done by officials in the Department of Social Protection and the Pensions Board. The IORP directives basically relate to regulation, funding standards, the quality of information, etc. An amount of work has been done. It is constantly on the EPSCO agenda when the various social welfare and employment Ministers meet. There is still an awful lot to do. Issues such as employer liability should be approached through something like European minimum standards. That is a long way down the road, to be honest, although some work has been done.

I assure Deputy Clare Daly that the rest of this legislation is about assisting companies with restructuring options with a view to improving the protection of the different parties involved, particularly the deferred and the active members. As the Deputy suggested, some of them are extremely concerned that they are contributing to a pension fund whose fruits they might not enjoy. That is one of the reasons we are passing this legislation. That is the very positive part of the legislation. I understand what Deputies would like to achieve. I am afraid that, in terms of defined benefit schemes, the horse bolted a long time ago. The number of defined benefit schemes declined by more than 1,200 - from over 2,200 to just over 1,000 - between 1997 and 2011. As I have said, the number of defined benefit schemes in Ireland at present is approximately 800. In 2007 and 2010, the then Government produced statements to the effect that it was going to sort all of this out. Very little of that was ever reflected in law, however, partly because of the difficulties we have been discussing. This is the first time the State has sought to address some of the issues. However, we will not be in a position to accept these amendments.