John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

On the correspondence, I put it to the HSE that in 2009 there was a certain level of correspondence with the CRC. It is clear from the correspondence that although Mr. Nugent states he had a good relationship with the HSE, it reminds be a little of my relationship with the HSE - it is a little on and off. The CRC certainly wrote to the HSE in terms that would give me the impression that the CRC was determined to do its business independently of the HSE, make its own decisions and implement them, and any of the recommendations or rules that were being applied by the HSE were certainly not acknowledged in the course of 2009.

I put it to the HSE that it had little correspondence after 2009. It did not respond to Mr. Peelo's letter which, essentially, tells the HSE what transpired at this meeting. It would give anyone reading this the impression that all was well. That was dated November 2009.

One must go to 28 September 2012 before the next piece of correspondence. At best, the HSE was haphazard in the way it managed the section 38 organisations. The HSE certainly seemed to have been pushed about by the CRC and the HSE, in its correspondence, was not up to then intent on laying down the law and making the CRC comply because one must go along to another letter dated 2013 to where the HSE refers matters to Arthur Cox. The HSE seems to be laying a paper trail in 2013, as it were, covering its tracks, to show that it had been heavily engaged with the CRC, but that does not seem to be the case from 2009.