Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Before I make some quick comments, I must apologise. With the way this place works on a Wednesday, we have to be in 14 different places at the one time, and as soon as we get into an interesting discussion, we are told we have to leave. I will make some comments and I hope the witnesses can excuse me at that point.

This has been an interesting discussion. I welcome much of what has been said. The witnesses have been open minded and have spoken about teachers being excited about elements of what has been proposed. We must acknowledge that change is needed. The junior certificate, as it stands, is not relevant to the modern era as we cannot ask 15 year olds to get a certificate in order that they might go out to the workforce with it. That is an old-fashioned idea. Some people are failing in the education system, particularly young men. Many of them fall out in second year of secondary school. They might not fall out in body and they might still be enrolled, but they certainly are not fulfilling their potential. Something has to change, not just in the teaching but also in the learning. That is where we are coming from with these changes. I take on board what has been said today. Nothing can happen in education without empowering teachers. Nothing can happen in education without bringing everybody with us. I know that from my experience.

We had the History Teachers' Association of Ireland before the committee, and one would swear from media commentary that we were banning history in every school in the country. When we dig deeper into the statistics, we find that only 50% of schools in the State have compulsory history at the moment, but 90% of them study history at junior certificate level. We find that 54,000 students are doing junior certificate history and geography, but twice as many are doing leaving certificate geography than doing leaving certificate history. Sometimes something is presented and a narrative begins, but when we examine it a little bit more, it does not seem as simple as initially presented. In respect of the Irish Heart Foundation, what is being suggested will happen would be a negative. What is the current situation in physical education? Is it adequate? Are schools doing it? I know of second level schools, especially girls' schools, where it seems to be more of an option to opt out of physical education.

We need to broaden the argument about obesity. We need to start talking about hunger. One fifth of children in this State are going to school or to bed hungry. It is not necessarily a resources issue. It is a chaos, dysfunctionality and lifestyle issue. That is part of the overall discussion about food, helping our children learn and the lifestyle choices parents and individual families make. When the witnesses talk about a lack of reaction on the part of the political system to that, I point out that we spend more on breakfast and school meals than we ever have before, at €37 million, but part of that is a wider discussion about children coming to school hungry at primary and second level.

I want to say one thing about the Irish Human Rights Commission.

Approximately two years ago, I went to many second level schools and talked to junior certificate students who had just done the examination. They told me that the one subject they had question marks over was civic, social and political education, CSPE. They enjoyed it but they took the view that not enough time was given to it, that it was not structured enough and that it was not going anywhere. This was their view, not mine; the subject was not in the system when I was in school. Anyway, there is great potential for the subject in respect of turning children into citizens and not simply economic units. I fully agree with the deputation in that regard. One frustrating aspect of this building is that we discuss the economy and money so much and human beings as economic units. Really, we should be discussing turning people into citizens. I accept what the deputation has said about a vehicle or subject like this. However, as Deputy McConalogue asked, rightly, how does one balance so many different subjects and values within the education system to try to achieve what we want to achieve?