Mr. Ciarán de Baróid:

I am from the Community Foundation for Northern Ireland. I manage the two PEACE programmes that we operate. I have a point I believed somebody else might have brought up.

Mr. Curry has raised the question that is asked as to why everybody does not just go home, have a cup of tea and forget about the matter on the basis that it is 15 years down the line. He has referred to the questioning of what is the point in continuing with this work. The impact and value of this work on the ground are very often missed outside the areas in which it is progressing. There were three occasions in the past four years on which we could have slid back into serious shooting-related conflict in the North. The first was when the policeman was killed, the second was when the two soldiers were killed and the third which occurred more recently was when the flag protest occurred at the beginning of this year. When one is outside the communities, it is very easy to look at the television and see a terrible thing happening without being aware of the discussion around the table. What one does not see is the discussion around the table in our office in Belfast. The loyalist representatives said there was a massive demand in their communities for a backlash and to kill a few Catholics after the killing of the policeman and two soldiers. There was a very lengthy discussion around the table and people went back into their communities and said there was no support for the activities in the republican community. That message had to be brought back by representatives of the loyalist community. There is no point in the likes of Mr. Walsh, Mr. Mulgrew, Mr. Gallagher or Mr. Dunbar saying there is no support; the message has to come from the representatives of the loyalist communities. The latter representatives, because of their background and because they are former prisoners, commanded a lot of respect and had a lot of clout in their communities. When on two occasions they went back to those communities and said there was no support for the activities in question, the lid was put back on a very dangerous situation.

On another occasion there was a rumour that the INLA was to attack an Orange Order march that would be passing Ardoyne. The response within loyalist communities was,"To hell it will; we will go up to Ardoyne and sort that out." Again, there was discussion around a table and the representatives from the INLA constituency assured the loyalist representatives that there was no truth to the rumour. The rumour had been circulated by the Northern edition of one of the more irresponsible newspapers in the country. People went back into their communities and said what had been rumoured would not happen. It was a case of calling a war and nobody coming, with the consequence being no trouble in Ardoyne.

One saw what was happening on the street during the flag protest. At the Short Strand-Lower Newtownards interface, events were at the point where there was real potential for somebody to be killed. The sectarian element was developing. The former IRA, ex-combatant, ex-prisoner constituents sent 100 men to the Short Strand to stop the response or attack - whichever way one views it - coming from that community. Colleagues supporting former UDA prisoners did tremendous work at the interface. This is possibly the case with some of the UVF representatives, but I know the UDA representatives pulled it back. From the outside, people saw the trouble vanishing, but they did not hear the dialogue.

There is a constant, simmering undercurrent in the North that can be ignited very easily by the smallest event. We are now in a set of circumstances in which there is a lid on a number of matters. There is much discussion and debate taking place and there is a lot of work being done by the people sitting around tables that are not seen. One can never prove the riot or killing that did not happen. I am outlining the battles people have all the time. There was no trouble on Shankill Road when there was trouble in east Belfast. People expressed their surprise, but they did not realise why there had been no trouble there, in Lisburn and the area Mr. Gardiner covers in Derry. They did not see the work done on the ground. Without the project groups, there would be a massive vacuum within working class areas. People on the island do not realise how important it is to maintain this work.