Mr. Martin Callinan:

I thank the Deputy for his questions, to which I will try respond. If I miss out on any of them, the Deputy can remind me of them later.

The Deputy spoke about trust, which is the ethos of what we do. If we do not have the trust and confidence of the people for whom we provide a service we have nothing. I concur with the Deputy's comments in that regard. I was pleasantly surprised to note from the recently published survey that we are top of the tree in this regard, which is great.

On relevance, this issue has received a great deal of air time. I have had this conversation with the Chairman of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. Relevance in terms of the people tasked and charged with the responsibility of investigating is absolutely and totally in its province. The question, how would we feel if we were being questioned about relevance, was rightly asked. I have no issue with that. The conversation which I had with the Chairman centred around the high end of the business about which I spoke about earlier, namely, sensitive and delicate information and my need for clarity when An Garda Síochána is imparting this knowledge, without interfering with the integrity of the GSOC's investigation, which, I understand, is paramount, as to the reason the information is relevant. When discussing this issue an analogy was drawn between a person stealing a handbag from a lady on the street and running away with it and An Garda Síochána going into a bank and asking the bank manager how much that person had in his or her account. That information would not be relevant to An Garda Síochána in terms of trying to catch the person who snatched the handbag. It is important when we are dealing with sensitivities such as the identity of informants and the product they deliver that we have some sense, while not wishing to interfere with the integrity of the investigation, of the reason that intelligence is necessary. We are not asking the Ombudsman Commission to pour out its soul because obviously there are aspects it would want to protect in order to conduct its business efficiently and effectively. We appreciate that. That was the only I had around relevance.

I know that the ombudsman commission has indicated to this committee, which information is in the public domain, that An Garda Síochána had been questioning the relevance of the material and information sought in relation to, if I might use the expression, "a lower threshold" of investigations by it. I have no crib with the ombudsman commission. It should get what it needs in terms of those types of investigations. It is our duty to provide that. I will do everything in my power to ensure that this happens. As regards whether there will be tensions or issues around this, of course, there will. That is the nature of the business. In terms of policing, confrontation and issues arise. As all members will be aware in policing we are dealing with criminals who are not the most reliable in the world but they are as entitled as anybody else to make complaints against the Garda Síochána in terms of how members of the force deal with them. What is important is that we all operate in an atmosphere of mutual co-operation. That is what I am trying to achieve, both in terms of the protocols we signed off on last September and all of the other arrangements I have put in place, including a dedicated office to ensure that management is monitoring these requests for information and the length of time investigations are taking.

Every six weeks the ombudsman commission furnishes the dedicated office with a list of the top 20 longest cases on the Garda Síochána's books. I can assure the committee that the chief superintendent and superintendent in this area are proactive in terms of chasing down colleagues who are involved in these investigations and whose responsibility it is to pass on this information. They try very hard to ensure that the next list is not a repeat of the previous one. In other words, that they are acting within the relevant timeframes.

The Deputy asked how the CHIS is recognised. All of us have been exposed to systems in the UK - in the security services and the policing service - and we have responsibility for both, as he knows. We have considerable interaction with our colleagues in the security services in the UK and with the CIA in the US etc. We are conscious of the models employed and what is best practice. We have tailored our operation to suit that system to how we are set up.

We have had several reviews since the introduction of the CHIS system in 2006. It was reviewed very comprehensively in 2010 and again in 2011. In the past month I made it my business to go and talk to all the handlers, controllers and people in charge of the sources we operate. The assistant commissioner had convened the meeting and I made it my business to go in and talk to these people in order to reinforce with them the need to be extra vigilant based on the issues that have been highlighted that are now in place. I wanted to reinforce and refresh the memories on recording issues, ensuring that everyone is properly assessed and properly in the system, and ensuring that all of the required housekeeping is in place. I made it my business to do that.

Last week I went to the Garda College along with those in my senior command. The CHIS was put on the programme. We spent a decent amount of time discussing issues that have arisen in an effort to improve on what we have to ensure that everyone was crystal clear about how we should conduct our business. It is well recognised from within and from outside. I am sure everyone in this room and beyond is aware of the extraordinary successes An Garda Síochána has had on the organised crime side and the subversive side, particularly in more recent times. That is a very delicate area. The type of success we have had speaks to the competence of the system. I am often asked how good I am and how good the system I have in place is. One is as good as one's last game. At least if we are aware of what is out there and are bringing home the successes we have been bringing home, it gives some indication of how good we are and where we pit our wits against these people.

In short our international partners, including our European partners, very much respect the type of work we are doing in this area. My colleagues and I have chaired meetings over time. The foremost expert in the covert human intelligence source system area from Europol was present at our meeting in Templemore. He was very happy and very complimentary of the system we have in place.

The Deputy mentioned the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission arrests. I know of one. I am not sure if there have been others.