Mr. Martin Callinan:

The Deputy also mentioned Mr. Justice Smyth and what he was not privy to. It caused me some difficulty when I heard those comments. I am not entirely clear what is being suggested here. If we were aware, for instance, that people were being run off the books, as it was described, we would take action or the judge would ensure I took action. He would not have to convince me; I would certainly take it. I am not quite clear what is meant by saying that the judge can only act on what he sees.

In my opening statement, I indicated to the committee that the judge has access to any member of the Garda Síochána whom he wishes to see, in addition to any location, document or equipment. All of that is available. The reports to which I have been privy indicate we are doing our business in the appropriate manner. We have put a lot of time, energy and effort into ensuring the bespoke system we now have, replicated with all the best international practice, is fit for purpose, fair and transparent. That is obvious to someone who is ordained to look at the system from outside. In addition to that, there are internal processes. On an annual basis, the deputy commissioner examines and audits the system, including all the checks and balances we have within the code of practice. That applies both in terms of the general application and the special arrangements we have in place for the handlers of these people, as well as the controllers and assessors. All of those things are looked at carefully. Every quarter, the chief superintendent in each Garda division where these agent handlers are operating will undertake a review and certify it. Therefore, great effort is put into ensuring not alone that our processes are correct but also that the people in the system are subject to a fine assessment, in the first instance, to ensure they are fit for purpose and they do not engage in nefarious activity such as participating in crime, for example.