Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

That will be a serious problem. It might have been possible to sustain it in a city environment but I do not think one size fits all in that case. I certainly agree with the witness on that issue.

In respect of the elimination of town councils, I am surprised that a group such as IBEC did not seek a change in the county council system, as opposed to the town council system. Please do not get me wrong; I would not argue for the retention of all town councils. However, having served on both a town council and a county council, I could see the return from the town council was evident and useful. In the event of complaints, it was far more likely that they would have been directed at the county council. For example, if there were to be three large regional authorities, many changes could be made from the point of view of procurement opportunities and combining some of the services while still maintaining a district council model, which is the way I think we should proceed, but that is not what is proposed in the legislation. In some cases, the town councils will be missed.

Some of the high-profile town councils around the country, such as Westport Town Council, which has been in contact with us, made a substantial impact, as did Tralee Town Council. They are very important given the impact they make by being focused on the local economy, and they deliver a return. For example, the town council of which I was a member was a former town commissioners, and almost all of its funding came from Intel. None of that funding will go back to the Exchequer, but will go straight back to Intel in the form of profit. I question whether there will be the savings that have been mentioned. As that was a town charge, it would have been over and above the rates, but it would have been a relatively small charge. Even where the traders paid that town charge, most of the money would have been spent on town improvements, which would have had a direct return. That is very different from the arguments made by the witnesses in respect of where our money is going. One would have seen the return on it.

A point that has been a bone of contention is that some of the chambers of commerce and the Irish Business and Employers' Confederation argued for a property tax. The difficulty now is that they will ask where the money is spent, while every householder will ask the same question. They will do that at the same time as the general purpose grant is being radically reduced, and there is no additional money. I do not think that will lead to a harmonious relationship or a better arrangement in terms of how the costs will be distributed. I am surprised that the delegates are welcoming some of the things they welcome. Essentially, the property tax will take money out of people's pockets. It will not necessarily deliver a return in terms of additional services or lighten the load on the business sector. It is another observation rather than anything else. I would be interested to hear their response.