Ms Yvonne McNamara:

I thank the Chairman, members of the committee and departmental officials for their time. Mr. O'Connell and I are here on behalf of Mr. Richard Quirke, who has a 30 year involvement in the gaming sector in Ireland. We wish to address the committee on just one aspect of the heads of this Bill. Under the heads of the Bill as they currently stand, there is no prospect of the licensing of a resort casino in Ireland. When we refer to a resort casino, we are talking about a casino that is part of a dedicated entertainment complex that may involve hotels, restaurants, a spa, conference facilities, an equestrian centre and so on. Under the heads of the Bill as they currently stand, such a resort casino cannot be licensed. The proposed regulator would not have the power to do so. The mechanism for that restriction is under head 18 of the Bill, which places a limiting restriction on the number of gaming tables allowed in a casino and the number of gaming machines. Head 18 states that one single casino can have 15 gaming tables and up to 25 gaming machines. If the legislation goes through with that restriction, we will have a restriction in Ireland that exists nowhere else in Europe at the moment apart from Cyprus. While we do not say it is a mistake to stand alone on an issue, we say it is a mistake when that stance is against the international evidence and policy on casinos. We say it is a mistake when that stance is against home-grown policy put down in a detailed report less than three years ago by the Department itself, following on from another report in 2008 which recommended that the licensing regime allow for resort casinos. We also say that it is a mistake when that prohibition seems to go against the very spirit and idea behind the legislation.

The idea behind that legislation is that all kinds of gambling environment can be licensed, but they are to be subject to extreme scrutiny in terms of applicants, applications and ongoing regulation, which we welcome. What we cannot welcome is the arbitrary selection of resort casinos as the only type of gambling that cannot be licensed under this Act. When we look for a reason this might be the case, we come up empty.

In terms of resource casinos, it is well accepted in international practice, and also, as I say, in the home-grown policy that we have, that there are, possibly, alone among types of gambling, social benefits to be obtained from resort casinos. There is the tax revenue that is to be had from it; considerable licensing revenue when there is an operation of that scale; but, more important, the considerable economic benefits that come from the setting up of a resort casino in a particular locality. The committee will have Appendix 2, the more detailed submission that we have submitted, that shows the evidence from the United Kingdom and the United States of resort casinos being used as an instrument of social policy because of what they bring. When they set up in a particular locality, there is massive capital investment and significant employment opportunities are developed that are there at the construction stage and ongoing. I refer the committee to the fact that this is not notional. In the case of the north Tipperary venue which has recently gone through the planning process, these figures have acquired some reality. It is estimated that, for a period of five to seven years of construction, there would be 800 construction jobs in it and, ongoing, there would be expected to be 1,300 jobs and, furthermore, a development of approximately 500 jobs in the locality as a result. These are real benefits.

We are not blind to the fact, very eloquently put by Aiséirí, that there are costs and risks associated with gambling, but we respectfully submit that those risks are less attendant with resort casinos than with other types of gambling. The risks, I suppose, could be divided into three categories - compulsive gambling issues; disproportionate effects on poorer areas; and a criminality issue.

With compulsive gambling, we submit that a resort casino, which, of its nature, involves not only gambling but many other entertainment options, is not the natural recourse of somebody who wants to engage in compulsive gambling. A resort casino is more of a leisure activity. We are not saying that it would never happen in a resort casino but what we are saying is that responsible casino owners in a resort casino can take steps, and would have steps imposed on them by regulation, to ensure that they have the procedures in place to spot issues and that they take steps to ameliorate and mitigate any such issues.

Although I realise my time is coming to an end, I wish to address the position in Ireland with disproportionate effects on poorer people. That is a serious issue - however, I really wonder how seriously we take it in this country - where the national lottery is all pervasive. There are outlets for the national lottery on every street. There are bookies on every street corner. The national lottery is advertised as a way to transform one's life. In these circumstances, where these are convenience ways to gamble, it is our submission that these, in fact, hit the lower economic group much more than a resort casino where one must get in a car and plan one's trip and one is going to a place where it is not just gambling. I refer the committee to the appendices where there is hard evidence on those who frequent resort casinos.

Lastly, searching around for a reason for this arbitrary exclusion of resort casinos, we come up empty. It seems to be an aesthetic objection. It seems to be an objection to the scale of the physical building which is difficult to understand in a country such as Ireland, where there is a well-developed planning process and in which the north Tipperary venue has gone through that process recently - Mr. O'Connell can speak to that.

My final comment, merely to wrap up, is that we submit respectfully that resort casinos are different. They have social benefits. They carry risks like any other type of gambling but, we say, lesser risks and risk that can be mitigated and ameliorated more easily, and for that reason, the restriction in the heads of Bill at present that effectively prohibits them should be taken out.