Mr. David Hickson:

We estimate 20,000 unlicensed machines, not venues. We represent the land-based private members' card clubs and they do not really operate machines. Some of them have two to six machines. I refer Deputy Niall Collins to the Licensed Gaming Association of Ireland, LGAI, which will appear before the committee next week. It is expert in that area whereas I am not.

Regarding the margins, typically for every €100 that passes over a gaming table, €84 goes back to players in winnings and the house keeps €16. The operator pays VAT at 23% leaving €12 to cover overheads, which typically run at approximately 9.5%, leaving a net profit margin of approximately 2.5%. With such a tight profit margin it would be difficult to get a return on the substantial early investment it would take to establish a standard of casino that would be on a par with other European venues.