Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 2 October 2013

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality

Achievements of Irish Presidency and EU Justice and Home Affairs Council: Discussion with Minister for Justice and Equality

9:40 am

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will deal first with the British opt-out. I have engaged in various discussions with my counterparts in the UK, including the Home Secretary, Ms Theresa May MP, the Secretary of State for Justice and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, on this matter. I had discussions with them when the British Government first announced it was going to pursue this issue. That was prior to the House of Lords producing a very detailed and comprehensive report on the opt-out. This is a report of some importance. However, it is a matter for the British Government to determine the level of importance it is going to attach to it. The British have confirmed in recent weeks their intention to proceed down this route. The opt-out impacts on just in excess of 130 instruments that are in place between the different EU member states. The British have indicated that they wish to continue to participate in approximately 32 to 33 instruments.

At a very early stage, I emphasised to all my ministerial colleagues in the UK this State's substantial concerns about the route they were proposing to travel. We emphasised the importance - not just within an EU context but also in the context of the island of Ireland and relationships between Ireland and the UK - that the UK should continue to be party to and a full participant in a broad range of instruments that are of importance. One of the blindingly obvious examples in this regard is the European arrest warrant, which has facilitated the transfer - from North to South and vice versa - of those who face serious criminal charges not just in respect of terrorism but also in the context of serious crime. The arrest warrant is also a very important instrument between this jurisdiction and England and Scotland. The statistics show that the highest proportion of arrest warrants issued in respect of these islands have been between the UK and Ireland and Ireland, the UK and Northern Ireland.

The position with regard to the direction this matter is taking is quite complicated. The British negotiated the opt-out and the proposal is that they are going to opt out of the more than 130 instruments to which I refer. The treaty into which they entered provides the facility to opt out. However, the question of how Britain will continue to be, or how it will opt back in to being, party to instruments with which it wishes to continue to be involved is a matter of some legal complexity. This issue has been the subject of some discussion among other member states.

There has not been clarity yet from the British as to how they will deal with this matter in the context of the Commission. The Commission's view on this appears to be that the British and the UK are parties to these instruments and that there is no procedure in place to provide, for example, that if at midnight they opt out of all 130 plus instruments, at one second past midnight they would be instantly party to the ones to which they retain. It may be that some other member states are less than enthused about them opting out of other ones to which they do not intend to remain party. There are some instruments they no longer wish to participate in. Some of them are out of date and a number of them will not matter in practical terms, but the position remains uncertain. It is a cause of concern to me as Minister for Justice and Equality that we do not have a clear path. This is an issue that will travel into 2014. I know from discussions with other European Justice and Home Affairs Ministers that they have a concern that there is a lack of clarity as to the roadmap for dealing with this. I am afraid that is as much as I can say about it.

It is very much in the interests of this State and of our relationship with the UK and in dealing with issues of great seriousness in the justice area that the UK continues to participate in the important instruments that facilitate close co-operation in the exchange of information on criminal activity, and close co-operation in dealing with the European arrest warrant to ensure those who are charged with serious offences are brought to justice, not only on both sides of this island but in the UK and in Ireland. We do not want to revert to the complex extradition legislation that was previously in place in the 1960s. It created a range of issues around the concept of a political offence which, for those engaged in terrorism, was seen as some protection to them from coming before the courts in circumstances that were appropriate where death and destruction was being caused on this island. This remains an issue of great seriousness to us. It is an issue on which I have had continuing engagements with British Ministers. It is a matter that the Taoiseach has also raised with Prime Minister Cameron. I expect discussion on that issue to continue in the coming weeks and months both between us and the UK and within the family of European Justice and Home Affairs Ministers with a view to seeing what solution can be provided to deal with the issues in this area. I have said to our UK counterparts that I am anxious that we would be of what assistance we can to ensure the UK continues to participate in the instruments that are of huge importance to both our islands.

I suggest that members read the report published by the House of Lords which details a series of concerns about the route that is being travelled in this context. I have had discussions with the Minister for Justice, David Ford, in Northern Ireland. He and I discussed this also at an early stage. I am sure that Deputy Mac Lochlainn is aware that the Minister has concerns arising out of this and I think they are shared by all in the Administration in Northern Ireland. I apologise for talking at such length on this issue-----

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