Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the delegation for coming in today to discuss these extremely important initiatives. Labour activation measures are very important. I commend the Department on the proactive approach it is taking to labour activation measures, which challenges the perception people have, rightly or wrongly, that its function is to write cheques on a weekly basis.

I welcome the introduction of Gateway, which is a principle for which I lobbied as far back as 2010. I have numerous pieces of correspondence from the previous Government on trying to get an initiative like this off the ground. I believe the then Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, went as far as announcing an initiative similar to this one on 30 August 2010, in which he set a target of 10,000 by the year end and 40,000 over the following two years. They were far more ambitious targets.

I welcome this scheme, for which I have lobbied hard. I have raised this with Mr. Fleming on numerous occasions as well as the Minister, but I have a difficulty with the figure of €20. We are talking about the equivalent of the community employment scheme. Deputy Ó Snodaigh spoke earlier about PRSI and he is right in that regard. I have the figures here. If somebody has a dependant and four children, he or she will get €422 on welfare and €433 if he or she goes on a community employment scheme. Effectively, what he or she is getting with the PRSI is €11 for a week's work. There is no incentive for anybody to go out to work for €11.

The scheme itself is very worthwhile and important. When I first went public with this in 2010, I was on many of the national stations. At that time, I was a county councillor and my office was flooded with inquiries. However, I was talking about an additional €100 per participant, which would be fair for anybody willing to go out to work for 20 hours.

We must be realistic, especially where I come from in Cork. Much of the work being done by Cork County Council is maintenance work, including the maintenance of roads, hedgerows, roadways, drains and parks. Let us be honest in stating that not an awful lot of training is required for that. It is manual work. The workforce has been hugely depleted over the past few years and this is a way to restore it.

The Government and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government should have put significant resources into this because it would have represented exceptional value for the taxpayer. It would have been a win-win situation for the person who participated, for the taxpayer and for the community. Unfortunately, we have introduced this while demonstrating an inability to think outside the box. We have replicated the Tús scheme and have run that through the councils. It is very disheartening and disappointing that we have missed this opportunity. I feel very strongly about it and I want to register a protest at the €20 because it takes the good out of it.

We are talking about keeping 15% of places for the under 25s. I would not worry about that because they will not do this for €120 per week. They will not go out to work for 20 hours, nor should they. I note the Help to Work scheme introduced in Britain this week by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He is forcing people to work for their welfare, although that is a slightly different debate. There is a voluntary element here, although there are penalties. I am not sure those penalties will come to much because history has shown that they do not. I regret being negative because I fought and lobbied hard to see this scheme come about, but it is a compromise because of the €20.

The British Chancellor of the Exchequer has put £300 million into the scheme he has introduced and has targeted it at 60,000 long-term unemployed people. We are putting in an average of €7 million per annum, or €21 million over three years, and are targeting it at 3,000 people per annum. It is a pittance and it is a pity.

Could I get figures for Cork County Council? I have had numerous meetings with the director of services for roads. The council has been extremely positive about this. I was pushing for this scheme during my time as mayor of that local authority. Could I get those figures to do some further analysis on this? I do not know whether it is available today but I could I have the figure for the number of people availing of community employment schemes? If the delegation does not have that figure I will understand, because it is not part of today's discussion. However, this scheme is very similar to the community employment one.

I referred to the Help to Work scheme introduced by the British Chancellor of the Exchequer, which has been received very well in the UK over the past four or five days. Polls suggest up to 60% of the people there support it. It replicates the work for dole scheme in the United States. Has the Department of Social Protection any plans to introduce such a scheme? Perhaps in a different forum, is there a possibility we could discuss that?

I mentioned the announcement of a scheme by a former Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, on 30 August 2010. It was called "work for dole" on RTE. Did that scheme ever take off or did 10,000 people avail of it in 2010? At the time, it was hoped 40,000 would avail of it in two years. We are only aiming to have 3,000 per year on this scheme, which is 6,000 over two years. We are not being very ambitious here, given that more 200,000 people are long-term unemployed. The reason we cannot be ambitious is because of the €20.

What is the Department's reaction to the criticisms in the recent OECD report, particularly in regard to community employment schemes and the overriding lack of ambition in the Department with regard to serious labour activation schemes? Are there more ambitious long-term targets for Gateway comprising more than 3,000 people per annum, given the amount of work to be done in local authorities? One does not need a former councillor to tell one that. We have to be fair to people.

In regard to JobsPlus, the number of placements awarded by the year end is 400. Perhaps Ms Faughnan will repeat the figure for next year. What steps are being taken by the Department to make employers aware of it? Unfortunately, it is the old problem of employers not being aware of it. I have done surveys and have met employers who are still not aware of it.