Mr. John Dunne:

On anecdotal evidence, we are not equipped to do a detailed audit of the HSE. After last year's committee there was a witch hunt in the HSE for three days, and the case I referred to of somebody who was being put to bed at 3:00 p.m. was addressed. I specifically did not give the details because that was not the point. I wanted to highlight a different issue, which is that within the labour and management systems this is the sort of dysfunction that happens. We regularly meet Ministers and senior officials. We give them cases; they say it is shocking; the case is reversed. We are wasting so much time and effort within the Oireachtas system doing that sort of nonsense. We do not have the resources or the access to the information, so all we can offer is anecdotal evidence. As legislators if the members are hearing a very diverse group of organisations coming in with the same message, that points at something needing to happen.

On Senator Colm Burke's questions about the community-based approach, there are increasing efforts to develop volunteer initiatives but there is a limit to how appropriate they are within the system. I refer to the age-friendly counties initiative as a positive initiative. It is outside the health area and that is a conscious point around ageing and dependency. Within the HSE the social care agenda is being squeezed out by everything else. It is due to pressure on resources. I am not trying to malign any individual.