Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I share Deputy Ó Ríordáin's concern. When I last looked at the numbers, I discovered that the horses and dogs subsidy costs approximately 20 times as much as the Seanad.

As for tobacco, Senator Crown has made a proposal for a tobacco-free society, which I support. Moreover, I believe that as Minister, Deputy Micheál Martin did a lot as well. I am unsure whether tax was responsible for the entire improvement the witnesses have described and he deserves great credit for that because he acted before other countries. Members find the Minister, Deputy Reilly, to be very much of the same mentality. I believe having a crack at the tobacco industry may be the only popular thing the Minister for Health can do these days, and I support him with regard to the plain wrapping, the elimination of flavoured tobacco, in order that one actually gets the gunk and not menthol or peppermint or whatever they try to disguise it with. In the context of a tobacco-free society, one should give consideration to where it should be eliminated next. Members suggested sales of tobacco in garages because I support Senator Crown's contention that smoking in cars constitutes a danger to the passengers because it is a confined space. The Department has had that Bill for approximately two and a half years but has done nothing about it. If one cannot smoke in the car, they should not be sold in garages. Essentially, one must withdraw tobacco from society to have a tobacco-free society, which I support because the medical evidence is so overwhelming. Why do governments sell this commodity, which everyone knows is damaging, in duty free shops? Moreover, as such shops are the biggest discounters, why not pursue them? Moreover, a non-smoker discount in health insurance is worth considering, given the cost it imposes on the sector.

I am not so sure that drink and tobacco should be included in the same category as the vast majority of people consume drink sensibly. The income distribution aspects of minimum pricing, to which I believe Deputy Higgins referred, are horrendous and one is enriching the industry. If someone wishes to sell something for X but the State insists that it be sold at 2X, it is no wonder the industry supports minimum pricing. I believe it is also contrary to European law. There has been a certain amount of scaremongering because The Economist World in Figuresdoes not show Ireland as a nation of drunks. It is 23rd in respect of total alcohol sales expressed as litres per head of the population, with 63.5 litres in Ireland, whereas Australia is the leader at 99.4 litres. The Revenue Commissioners tell members that spirits consumption has fallen heavily, that of wine is increasing and pubs are shutting down. Consequently, I believe a change in the market from pubs to off-licences has annoyed the trade and the latter has aligned with people who have exaggerated the degree of consumption. I see that pubs are shutting and believe the younger generation is much more responsible in the use of alcohol than was mine and note the number of road deaths has fallen from approximately 650 per year to 150 per year. Consequently, I believe we have responsible people and I am not sure whether minimum pricing is the answer to that. Moreover, I believe it would have economic aspects that have not been considered properly.

As to where members should go regarding the health lobby people who are present, the Department of Health publishes the numbers and we are major expenders on health services. We doubled the number of staff between the last recession and the present one from 55,000 to 110,000, although I acknowledge it has come back a bit. When the troika discussed this with economists, it stated that the fee for a general practitioner, GP, in Ireland was twice what it was in Belgium. Moreover, one might ask where are GPs after 5:30 p.m. and at weekends? While we have 24-hour shops seven days a week, the number of consultants increased by 44.7% between 2002 and 2011. Similarly, the total number of hospital doctors was increased by 24.4%, and as for GP services, the number of people who had contracts with the Department rose by 48.1%.

Consequently, I believe there is a combination of factors, in that the sector always would like more money, has a voracious appetite for it and the Department appears to be particularly useless at controlling it. However, after the United States, Ireland spends one of the highest proportions of gross national income on the health service but its representatives are pretty good at claiming it is underfunded and, as a member of a finance committee, I would require serious proof of that. Our health service costs €3,781 per capita, whereas the comparable figure in the United Kingdom is €3,487, which is able to provide a full service. Consequently, I believe we have a problem of overmanning and high costs in the health service and the solution really is to look at how and why the staff doubled, up to 110,000 people, between the recession in the 1980s and this one, as well as at what those 110,000 people were doing. Moreover, one must ask the reason there is a combination of a very large spend and a lot of patient and customer dissatisfaction with what is being provided. Consequently, as a member of a finance committee, I share the concerns of the troika that Ireland does not get good value for money in health. As the witnesses are aware, it is one of the major Departments that it has targeted and, consequently, they must tell members a lot more then they did today for me to vote for any increase in the health budget.