Mr. John Dunne:

I will briefly make three points. To declare an interest, we receive section 39 funding. It is being reviewed and we believe that is appropriate, to respond to Mr. Harty's point.

Again, I also must declare an interest on zero hour contracts. We operate such contracts. I accept what the Deputy says, but I argue that we try very hard to be a good employer within the constraints, of which I will give an example. The HSE might ring me to state, "We want you to have a carer get into their car, drive out and get somebody up out of bed, washed and dressed, after which the carer can return home. We are paying you for half an hour. Travel time does not count and we will give you €9 for that." The HSE might ring up to state it wants this to be done now or tomorrow. The agreement is that there should be 48 hours notice. We are filling in the gaps around the staff who are not on zero hour contracts who are employed by the HSE, paid a higher basic rate and travel and subsistence and who, by and large, deliver care between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. I accept the sincerity of the Deputy's position, but I ask her to acknowledge that in the market in which we operate which is designed and operated by the State there is no other practical way of doing it. I would be delighted to sit down and work out if there is an alternative way. Ultimately, there is a big issue operationally about the flexibility of delivery required geographically. If one considers remote parts of the country, somebody might have to drive for half an hour to get to a house to provide half an hour of care and be paid €9.