Mr. Michael Harty:

There is obviously a certain amount of disagreement in that regard. On the Deputy's point about incentivising carers in the industry, we certainly agree with it. We would like to see movement towards caring being viewed as a career, rather than just a job. However, that is dependent also on the amount of funding that can go into the sector.

It is also important to point out that there is a misconception that there is a difference between a home help organisation, a private operator or a section 39 funded company, be it the Alzheimer Society of Ireland or others. We all operate in the same cost structures. They have chief executives whom they pay and they pay their carers. They have administration and financial costs. There is no difference. There is a misconception that we are talking about voluntary organisations, but we are not. These are people who receive funding under section 39. In addition, section 39 funding is paid up front, without a need for an invoice, accountability or transparency. A total of €58 million is paid to home help organisations through section 39 funding to provide home care. Internal HSE reports indicated that €18 million of this was tainted. By tainted I mean serious mismanagement and actual fraud.

We must remember what we are discussing. We all have the same end game - we wish to deliver the best quality care to the maximum number of older people. Raising issues such as zero hour contracts is fine, but what is the Deputy's solution to ensure the many more older people who will come on stream in the next few years will be looked after? We are certainly open to any solution or suggestion she might have. However, let us not forget that the focus we require is to provide the best quality of care for the maximum number of people possible. That is done through accountability and transparency, which is not currently the case within the home help sector.