Mr. Mike Allen:

It is the type of question one hates to be asked. In terms of the financial bottom line, I agree with Mr. Jordan. As we say in our submission, it is the recognition by the State that it needs to invest in the construction of social housing. There is an advantage in speaking after others have spoken. The other thing I would say is that there should be no cuts in services. However, if the only thing we can say is "do not make matters worse", is that what we have come to as a nation? Taking advantage of hearing others say this - I am not criticising what others say by any means - I have to say it must be about people. It is the children that Barnardos talks about, the families we are working with and the individuals. Of course, there must be number crunching, but somewhere along the way, in the trauma of the crisis we have been through, the State has lost and is brutalised. It has become impossible for it to recognise the damage it is doing to the human beings who are the citizens of the State. That must change. There must be a fundamental bottom line about what the entire project of having a nation, reforms, change and a Government is about. Unless we have that, everything else is really just banging our heads against brick walls.