Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. O'Sullivan. This is a very interesting exposition not just of employment law but of company law, how it operates and how Mr. O'Sullivan and others like him have been affected. Some of what he said will resonate with many people who find themselves in his situation. They may not have looked into it as much as he has but none the less, he raises very interesting points. I also welcome the other witnesses.

Employment law is relatively recent compared to other areas of law, such as property law. For the most part, employment law is about the rights of employees and creating those rights. We have been brought up to speed since 1972 and our involvement in Europe, especially in the areas of equality between the sexes, pay and so on, and it has developed from there.

A frustration has been expressed here in regard to the very technical nature of employment law. There are reasons for that and there are broad principles underlining the whole employment law area based fundamentally, I suppose, in contract and then modified after that to avoid these broad principles constantly having to be interpreted in courts. We have quasi-judicial bodies, such as the Employment Appeals Tribunal and rights commissioners, to examine a codified piece of legislation to establish rights. That gets down to the nuts and bolts of things. The demand is there for this level of detail in that these laws did not come about by accident. We are not all suddenly here wondering why we have such a technical area of law. It is there because of pressure to make the rights of employees clearer.

Ms Murphy is here representing IBEC. However, the vast majority of businesses in this country are SMEs and from my experience, many of them are as overwhelmed as Mr. O'Sullivan in dealing with the whole area of employment law. These people may employ one person or two people. Whether employers or employees, one can have rotten apples in both camps and I certainly have encountered that. I practise as a solicitor and, to some extent, have seen it from both sides. Many of these small businesses feel very oppressed by the obligations on them. Even if one has an employee who is useless - excuse the word - at his or her job, it is very hard to get rid of him or her. Obviously, that is not from where Mr. O'Sullivan is coming but it is the truth. It takes up so much time and in the meantime one is trying to run one's business. This is not an easy area.

In partial defence of Ms Murphy, in terms of her language, we are always being reprimanded here for language and how politically correct-----