Susan O'Keeffe (Labour) | Oireachtas source

Thank you. We have seen how SUSI was clearly set up in good faith to make that system better. I am not saying the Department's system is the same but sometimes when people start bringing things together and amalgamating them with language about making it better or world-class, some things that were there get lost in the rush of enthusiasm that takes over. I would be very concerned, as the expression goes, that they would have the confidence to represent themselves. I am not convinced that what we have seen in respect of this legislation will provide that. The three months' waiting time is, again, a great aspiration. Given what representatives from the Department have said about the great backlog for the EAT, without a serious effort to put something in place that would really take on that acknowledged backlog, I am not entirely convinced that we will see any improvement. I suspect that if there are a number of cases arising, it is because people are becoming more educated, interested, able and willing to take people on in a way they perhaps did not do before. I am not sure whether we are not just moving the chairs and tables around on the deck.

The representatives from IBEC say that frivolous and vexatious claims happen hundreds of times, particularly at the rights commissioner hearing. I do not know the figures but if one was to take the rights commissioner hearings out of it, is IBEC really saying that this is also the case with regard to the EAT? Sometimes, I find people put in one thing to confound another and to make us feel that there is a lot of waste going on.

In respect of the bond, I take the point made by the Department that it has examined this. It says there is a difficulty with it. I wonder about the suggestion made by Mr. O'Sullivan about a guarantee. Is there a point possibly after the first part at which a bond could be paid? I feel we could be more creative rather than just ruling it out and saying "No" to a bond. In its review and drafting of the legislation, could the Department commit to going back to see if there is another version of the bond or bond system? While IBEC is very keen for employees to pay up-front, it is not so keen for employers to do anything in that regard. It is encouraging a system whereby employees have to pay for the service. I am happy that Ireland is an outlier in that matter and believe it should remain so and not charge people to take a case given all the problems that already exist for employees.

I am very welcoming of the procedure. It is a very complex case and perhaps the lesson for us is that we need a full day for everyone to have their say. I genuinely welcome the exchange here. It is extremely useful in respect of Mr. O'Sullivan's case and drills down in a way we do not often get the chance to do because he has been brave enough to let us do so.