Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

It may be so. In any event, the outturn of €179 million fell short of what was the Estimate. While the 2013 Estimates include a figure of €185,724,000, as Zhou Enlai replied when asked about the impact of the French Revolution, it is too early to say yet where that figure will end up. However the Chairman is correct, in that there is a significant evasion problem that could be of the order of €30 million. The Chairman also wished to ascertain what is the fee accruing to An Post for collection and in terms of the agency fee that is payable, it is €12,457,000. That is what the contract, which requires An Post to perform to certain standards and so on regarding the collection of the television licence fee, stipulates as to its particular allocation.

The Chairman's critical question is whether the transition to the public service broadcasting charge will mean more revenue. Truthfully, I believe the answer is that it will depend on the collection system. Much of the strong argument that exists for the transition to a public service broadcasting charge would be undermined were the collection system not effective. There are two principal arguments for the transfer, the first of which is technology. It pertains to the fact that a great many people are accessing public content other than on traditional television sets and that in a society, it is fair that everyone should contribute for that public service content and that therefore, one is liable to pay the charge like everyone else. The second argument concerns the scale of evasion and the need to do something about that. Therefore, in answer to the Chairman's question, it appears as though one should be able to raise more revenue if 99% of people are paying and that without increasing the television licence fee, one should bring in more revenue. However, that depends on whether the collection system will be effective. Colleagues will have opinions about the efficacy of the existing collection system but the question is whether it can be improved upon.