Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 10 July 2013

Committee on Transport and Communications: Select Sub-Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Revised)

9:30 am

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Moynihan is correct. When one sees the various subheads of the Vote one appreciates the expanse and variation in the area encompassed by the Department. In his questions he put particular emphasis on the importance of broadband, the progress that will be made by the end of the year and the financial issues that will arise from that. This relates in part to Deputy Harrington's question. The outturn was so low for the past year that the increase of 132%, if one looks at it in terms of global figures, is not really that significant. As Deputy Moynihan knows, the spend will be modest again this year. This is because the policy formation process was a task force that I chaired between industry and the Department. We had some expert advice available. That report morphed into the national broadband plan. The problem is that in the area that has been identified in which State intervention is unavoidable, one cannot make provision in the Estimate and spend it in 2013 because State investment is regarded as State aid. While it is a significant part of the country geographically, the population is not nearly as significant, but people who live in less densely populated areas have as much right to high-quality broadband as anywhere else. It has been acknowledged that the private sector, in which there is significant competition, is performing well in urban Ireland. We have regular discussions with them on the roll-out of their investment plans, but when State intervention is necessary, we have no choice but to comply with European requirements on State aid and procurement. For that reason, about six weeks ago - do not hold me to that date - we signed a contract with an Irish consultancy company to perform a detailed mapping exercise in conjunction with, among others, the providers themselves and the main telecommunications companies in the area. It is necessary to conclude that exercise, including handling the procurement side and making the submission to Brussels. There is a provision in the Estimates for this year but it is minor compared to what the demand will be in 2014 and 2015. It is only the cost of the preparation of the plan, but in terms of expenditure, we have committed some €350 million, of which the State will pay at least half. The consultants may well have a different figure by the time they have finished their exercise. To be truthful, there will be no spending on the main item in 2013, but it will be accelerated and ramped up in 2014 and 2015. As Deputies know, the commitment in the plan is that by the end of the lifetime of the Government there will be no area of the country that does not at least have a broadband service of at least 30 Mbps.

On policy formation in respect of the print and broadcast media, I will deal with Deputy Moynihan's question in more detail when we reach the broadcast heading. We have regular interaction with the print media for a variety of reasons. The significant responsibility in this area will only transfer to my Department when the consumer and competition Bill is enacted. That legislation will be brought through the House by my colleague, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton. We have been working with the Minister's Department in respect of over a dozen sections of the Bill. Responsibility in respect of the invigilation of print media ownership will be transferred, via those sections, to my Department when the legislation is enacted.

In the context of the Deputy's question in respect of broadband development, etc., I should have stated that there are myriad initiatives taking place in different parts of the country. I previously made reference to the fact that the ESB has invited expressions of interest from the industry in respect of the creation of a joint venture, the purpose of which would be to use the company's supply system to roll out fibre to rural areas. If this joint venture proceeds, it would provide a tremendous fillip. The ESB is interacting with the industry. I had hoped that it would make public the identity of its chosen partner prior to the summer recess. I do not know if it intends to do so, however, because a great many details must be taken into consideration with regard to the planning in respect of this matter. Such a development would be significant. Eircom experienced difficulties in the past and has emerged from examinership. That company's commitment to do better than that to which it originally committed is very welcome. The improvement in 3G services throughout the country as a result will also be welcome.

Deputy Colreavy is correct. One would have to examine the accounts closely before one would find any padding. The Deputy referred to consultancies and value for money. I do not know if he has a particular heading in mind in this regard but the figure for consultancies in the area of, for example, natural resources is significant. This is because a great deal of work is taking place in that area. The figure to which I refer is broken down into a number of areas including petroleum-energy engineering support, the consent conditions monitoring committee, the Corrib verification process, geophysicist consultancy, monitoring of Corrib gas consent conditions, environmental impact assessments, seismic surveys and an economic value assessment of the mining sector. The spend in this regard is not insignificant but the information obtained by means of it is essential if policy formation is to be based on the best available evidence.

The alternative would be that these skills would be retained in the Department. I am persuaded that this would not give rise to value for money in the sense that one does not need to have recourse - on a daily basis - to individuals who possess skills in the areas to which I refer. The services of such individuals, who are relatively few in Ireland, are immensely expensive. As long as there are in the Department people who are capable of assessing the data to which these consultants have access, that is fine. If, however, we were to employ people possessing the range of skills to which I refer, we would be obliged to spend significantly more than we currently pay out in consultancy fees. The largest amount in respect of consultancies, €789,000, relates to the subhead entitled "Other". This is a contingency provision and some of it may well be drawn down as the year progresses while some of it may remain unspent. In the context of communications, in particular, natural resources and, to some extent, energy, my research indicates that having resort to consultants is unavoidable. The alternative would be to retain people with top skills in a variety of disciplines on the direct payroll of the Department.

On office equipment, some of it is purchased and some is procured on a contract basis. We replaced all the personal computers, PCs, in the Geological Survey of Ireland this year and, as a result, there will be no need to replace them next year. Each year different items of equipment, etc., must either be replaced or renewed and expenditure is required in this regard. In the context of the amount to which the Deputy refers, the replacement of the Geological Survey of Ireland's PCs was the major item of expenditure.

Deputy Harrington referred to an apparent increase of 113% for 2013. If one compares the outturn for 2012 to the Estimate for 2013, one will see that a significant saving has been made. The Estimate was €28.5 million, whereas the outturn was €15 million. As a result, it appears that the percentage increase for 2013 is far greater than is actually the case.

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