Commissioner Carmel Foley:

Thank you. Following on Deputy Healy Rae's question, I would not like it to be thought that we have no outcomes or effects because, for instance, since we opened, over 150 files have gone to the DPP. In other words, where it seemed to us that there was a case to answer in respect of criminal allegations we have secured 24 convictions in that time, 18 of which related to gardaí and six to civilians. Where somebody has knowingly given false and misleading information we have the power to send a file to the DPP for a prosecution of someone who is not a garda. Sometimes the gardaí would say that we entertain a lot of malicious allegations against them but that figure contradicts that assertion. On occasion the court has decreed the Probation Act rather than the conviction of a garda. Similarly, the adult caution scheme has been applied in some cases.

Turning to discipline, the Garda Commissioner, who is the responsible authority for disciplining the Garda force, has applied well over 500 disciplinary sanctions. Therefore, there has been a positive effect. Many of our interactions, such as attending Templemore training college where we speak to gardaí of all grades, and the local meetings with senior Garda management, have had a useful outcome and exchange of views with learning on both sides.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh asked about our powers. We have proposed some legislative amendments to the Minister which the Department of Justice, Equality and Defence is examining. For example, we would like to see many minor allegations dealt with not as disciplinary matters but as proper service. In other words if the gardaí are holding somebody's property that person does not want an individual garda to be brought up on a discipline charge, he or she wants to get the property back. Our resources and those of the Garda force, not to mention court resources, could be better used on all fronts, rather than engage the whole cumbersome, disciplinary process - a process which existed long before we did, we were grafted on to the existing internal disciplinary process. This would enable us to deal with, for example, matters of poor service, as distinct from a hanging offence, to ensure, for instance, that the person would get his or her property back or the information they require or whatever minor allegation is involved. I do not mean to say that it is minor for the person involved but only in the sense that the garda is not being charged with some criminal neglect. It does come down to consent in that, rather than our having to impose the most draconian weapons or to act in a confrontational manner, we would like to see that just as the gardaí expect members of the public to interact positively and willingly with them, they would answer our questions and provide the information we require by consent. This would be in the interests of our joint overall objective of a force and a police service in which people have confidence.

Rather than having to use all of our legal powers we hope that, in the spirit in which the legislation is drafted, there would be an agreement to meet us half way and give an answer. There are always two sides to every story. It is only an allegation, let them tell us their stories. Instead, people come in with their lawyers and repeat "no comment". That is their legal right, if they want to take a very legalistic view. There is a provision in the Act for informal resolution and unfortunately we find that gardaí are unwilling to engage in that because they seem to think, wrongly, that by engaging we will automatically think that they have done something wrong. Very often a person simply wants an explanation as to why something was done, why the garda shouted at them in such a manner. I recall one very simple matter when the garda said, "I shouted because she would not have heard me over the traffic if I had not roared at her". We are proposing an amendment to the legislative scheme - the provision that is there at the moment for informal resolution - because if they engage in informal resolution they could sometimes explain the allegations of what a person perceives as discourtesy, bad manners or bad language.