James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

We would be in dangerous territory if we started asking people at every interview about their conscientious objection status. It is unlikely to happen and I say this with trepidation but I know that some institutions that espouse a very Catholic ethos would be staffed by people who would not be bound by that ethos and who would have a different view of a woman in distress. I do not think it is a given.

We are very clear that an institution does not have a right of conscientious objection yet it was determined that it was not necessary to put this in the Bill on the basis that as the Minister of State, Deputy White, has said on several occasions, it is not necessary always to include the negative in Bills. I do not mean any disrespect to anybody when I say that.

I wish to assure the Deputy that, while I understand the intention of the amendment he has proposed, it is not necessary. Section 17 sets out procedures to be followed where medical practitioners with a conscientious objection do not wish to carry out the procedure in question. In all other cases, the Bill provides the legal clarity to enable doctors, nurses and midwives to carry out procedures in accordance with medical best practice that are necessary to save women's lives.

On the issue of ensuring that medical practitioners are not obstructed in carrying out a necessary medical procedure, section 19(3) of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2006 already provides a specific offence of obstructing or impeding a person providing medical services at or in a hospital. It provides that "Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs or impedes . . . a person providing medical services at or in a hospital . . . shall be guilty of an offence." The term "medical services" includes services provided by doctors, psychiatrists, midwives, nurses, pharmacists and social care professionals or other persons providing treatment and care for persons at or in a hospital. I identify psychiatrists, I suppose in the context of section 9 but obviously psychiatrists are doctors. The penalty on summary conviction is a term of imprisonment for up to six months and-or a fine of up to €2,500.

The initial general scheme of the Bill approved by Government included an express prohibition on conscientious objection for institutions.