Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am somewhat inspired to respond to the discussion between Professor Kirby and Deputy Coonan because it is at the crux of, and impacts on, what we achieve and do not achieve. In a general sense we must answer what Deputy Coonan has said because this is what is on people's minds as a result of all the pressure on them relating to carbon taxes, changing systems and so on. We need to answer their concerns. Senator Keane said that the targets must be achievable and must make sense. They must make sense in a democratic sense as well in that they must be accepted by the people when we try to implement policy.

The urgency and passion with which Professor Kirby speaks indicates that the issue is urgent, but in terms of the western world and the USA, we are fundamentally consumer-driven societies. Until we tackle that, the problems will remain. The consumer sector of our economy is down but we have seen celebrations in the United States because the sector there is up. Where are the people there getting the raw materials from? They are getting them from the places, to which Deputy Coonan referred, where they are sending plumes of carbon into the sky. We buy the stuff. That is what we want and that is what people demand. They feel hard done by if they cannot get another new this, that or the other. I am not trying to denigrate people who are just getting by, but it is hard and it is, as it were, a chip in people now. If we try to change that, we are fundamentally changing what even developing countries want to work towards. They want people to be able to shop until they drop.

The proposals under discussion go beyond setting out that it is raining more here and that we will have difficulty getting food. It is a major ask in terms of the psyche of people, who are simply living from day to day or a few years ahead, to approach things in the way Professor Kirby has called for. Professor Kirby cannot dismiss what Deputy Coonan has said on that basis. This is bigger than agriculture.