Mr. Tony O'Brien:

They are, but they were put in place largely in response to what had been found, although some improvements had been made. Even if we were not living in a changed financial and funding context, it is inconceivable that I would authorise this scale of travel with this type of pattern and, clearly, the coincidences involving St. Patrick's Day and so on would have been noted in advance of giving authorisation. There is some overseas travel, both for patients and staff, where it is appropriate and necessary. It is clear, though, looking back at it from this remove that it was a time when it was thought reasonable for large numbers of persons to travel regularly to foreign destinations. That is no longer the environment. The circumstances in which the control environment was allowed to continue cannot apply again. The findings of the various reports have been fully implemented.

On the issue of motivation, it is not necessarily right to suggest there was a grand conspiracy theory, but the poor governance environment in the making of grants in that period created the potential for abuse and the creation of spurious bank accounts and so on in a way that does not apply now. It is clear as one looks back on it - it is grotesque in some respects - that some of the elements were not untypical of the time, but their coming together in the way they did created the problem we are discussing.