I acknowledge that Mr. O'Brien is limited in what he can say, but the more questions we ask, the more confusing it gets. What has become apparent is that a fund was established with good motives and significant good work was done in training and upskilling, but then public money was put to one side and used for wining and dining, which we can see from credit card bills, and extensive travel. Let us park the issue of whether rules were broken. Mr. O'Brien has clearly said they were not and I accept that officials in the HSE and the Department's travel section did not do so. However, now that both Mr. O'Brien and Dr. McLoughin are in situ, surely if there was this volume of travel today, they would find it peculiar and ask questions if 19 public officials were taking extensive foreign study trips. Will he give an assurance that this carry-on is not commonplace? With the benefit of hindsight, surely he finds this level of travel unacceptable. We must have the best level of study of public servants in Europe if people are constantly going on study trips, even those who are retired.