Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour) | Oireachtas source

We will now have a discussion on the disposal of State assets, to be followed by the quarterly review of the 2013 public expenditure against profile. I welcome the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, who is accompanied by Ms. Deirdre Hanlon, Mr. John Howlin, Mr. David Moloney and Mr. Brendan Ellison. The Minister will make opening remarks to be followed by a question and answer session. I remind members and witnesses and those in the Public Gallery that all mobile phones must be switched off.

Before we commence, I wish to draw attention to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. If they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular subject and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against an individual or an entity either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing ruling of the chair to the effect members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I will set the stage in regard to what the committee is seeking in proposing to engage with the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform on a quarterly review of the 2013 public expenditure against profile. This has two aspects: the revenue side, which is the responsibility of the Minister for Finance, and the expenditure side, which is the responsibility of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The committee wants to get the view from altitude on both revenue and expenditure on a quarterly basis. This concept arose in the committee at the latter end of the fourth quarter last year. The expected revenue and expenditure in day-to-day operations and management of an annual budget are given a profile, and monthly, quarterly and half yearly reviews of both expenditure and review take place, and if there is any divergence, action can be taken.

This engagement is only on a quarterly basis and it is the expectation of the committee that by getting a view from altitude, we can better manage public money and reduce or eliminate altogether the spectre we had last year of €1.2 billion of Supplementary Estimates. By reviewing the profiles of expenditure and review, action can be taken far earlier by rectifying shortfalls to cover both over and under-expenditure.

In layman's language, if the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform determines a figure for a Department, and if that figure is exceeded by €10 per week in quarter one, quarter two or quarter three, or if there is a reduction of €10 per week and that reduction is not met in quarter one, two or three, that means there is a €40 adjustment every week for the remainder of quarter four. These difficulties create massive problems in the management of budgets and politically. The difficulty of such an approach is that it leads to bad fiscal governance in that Departments who run over budget dip into the budgets of other Departments to acquire their funds and it creates a situation where budgetary targets in quarter one or two that are not being reached create problems where savings are not achievable or the implementation of the saving is not being appropriately managed. It is on this basis the committee is looking at the Minister's budget. It is an entirely different process from looking at the Estimates, which guess the sums that will be involved for the next year. This is an examination of the operational budget of a Department in real time to ensure what was agreed in the budget is being achieved.

I thank the Minister for engaging with this committee's proposal and commend him on doing so. I welcome the Minister, who is here to discuss how this will actually happen. This will be a long meeting because we are dealing with two items. There has been a great deal of speculation about whether the disposal of State assets is happening. Can the Minister tell us from the outset of his engagement with the committee today whether the Coillte assets are being disposed of?