Mr. Pat Dunne:

A number of issues were raised. Understocking has been a huge problem in County Wicklow. We never had an overstocking problem in County Wicklow, apart from in a couple of isolated places. Even when the commonage framework plans were drawn up, at the time it was generally recognised in County Wicklow that we did not have an overstocking problem.

As to the reason for understocking, it is simple; there is not a sufficient return from hill farming. I am one of the few full-time hill farmers left on the Wicklow hills. Most people have off-farm income because they need it. It is as simple as that.

Senator Susan O’Keeffe asked a question about young farmers. I have four sons, two of whom are keen to farm the hills, but, unfortunately, there is not sufficient income for them to do so. That is the reality. There are several similar situations in my area where other young fellows are mad keen to farm because there are good hills in parts of County Wicklow, but they must have an income to be able to provide in the future for a wife and children, whatever the case may be. As it stands, that is not possible. I would not be able to do it if I had a mortgage to pay. Most of my family have gone through college at this stage. As I have only one fellow left, I do not have the huge commitments someone with a younger family would have. That is the reality.

Burning dates was one issue that was raised. It has been a huge problem in County Wicklow since the system was introduced and it was introduced without any consultation. We were just told that was the case and that was the end of the story. We have campaigned for a long time through the Wicklow Uplands Council to try to have the dates changed back to where they were but to no avail. We have met various people and nearly all feel the same way about it. We would like to see sensible burning dates and a proper rotational burning system which would ensure massive and dangerous burning similar to what happened in Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill’s place in County Donegal would not happen. We had this a few years ago in the Sally Gap area of County Wicklow where thousands of acres were burned. It did not make the same headlines because there were no houses close to it and there was no health risk, as such. This spring there was a big burning in Ballycroy National Park in County Mayo where 15,000 acres were burned. If one goes back to the days when farmers managed the hills and they burned a little every year, there was never any big burn because if a fire happened to start, it ran into an area that had been burned the previous year and it did not go any further. That system worked for generations. Because I am out on the hills for a good deal of my time - I also do a good bit of hillwalking with a walking group - I am aware that the number of grouse has declined dramatically since the burning dates were changed. Where I used to see ten and 12 packs of grouse on the hills when out gathering sheep, I am now lucky if I see two or three grouse, such is the decline in numbers.

We all have to work together. During the years burning dates, sheep farming and grouse management always went hand in hand. I believe this was a mistake. I am not sure the people who pushed for the change in the burning dates realised the consequences of doing this, but the position must be brought back into line with that for our neighbours in the North of Ireland and across the water.