Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

There are several questions to address and I will try to answer all of them and get Deputy McConalogue the information as well. The first question was why there has been the significant drop in the funding of the universities and the institutes of technology. This reduction is mainly the result of the decision in the 2012 budget to reduce the once-off funding by 2% for 2013 and in addition the decision in the 2013 budget to make a once-off reduction in the cash balances. This is similar to what we discussed earlier with the vocational education committees. Some €25 million was taken from them. There is also the estimated savings from the Haddington Road agreement. I understand that is the reason for the figures amounting to approximately a €100 million reduction.

Deputy McConalogue referred to pension increases. There was an increase because of the 29 February phenomenon last year when many people were able to retire on their outgoing salary rather than the incoming reduced public service salary. The committee may recall that there was an increase among the teaching profession at primary and secondary level, and there was a similar increased number in the third level sector.

Deputy McConalogue asked a question about the three possible technological universities. I am please that Deputy McConalogue is using that term because there is an expectation that one can simply change the name over the door of the institution and by that one has changed the content of what is happening inside. In a way, that is what happened in 1997 with the then Regional Technical College, Waterford. By general consensus that college had achieved an academic status that was significantly higher than many other of the regional technical colleges throughout the country. However the legislation at the time was so loose that the title of the college could be changed by ministerial order rather than by primary legislation or an increase in academic evaluation. Once the change took place in one college all the others got the same designation. Therefore, the attempt by the college in Waterford to get recognition for its distinct status was effectively nullified.

The legislation has since been changed and there is newer legislation in place and the institutes of technology are now under the Higher Education Authority. Three clusters have applied. The Dublin Institute of Technology with the institutes in Blanchardstown and Tallaght have decided to apply for technological university status. One could argue, given the nature and the history of the Dublin Institute of Technology, that had the concept of a technological university been available ten, 15 or 20 years ago it probably would have applied directly for that title rather than the unique name of the Dublin Institute of Technology. Representatives from the Dublin Institute of Technology have told the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, and the Department that to promote the Dublin Institute of Technology as an institution internationally and to attract foreign students, notwithstanding MIT and the California Institute of Technology, Caltech, and several other such world-renowned names, the existing title does not have the same resonance from a comprehension point of view and does not suggest that it is providing courses up to and including level 10. That concept does not exist in such places as India and China.

I cannot prejudice what the expert group will likely adjudicate at the end of the year but one would assume, given what we know already about the critical mass of the Dublin Institute of Technology and the two other Dublin-based institutes of technology, that they are in a different position to the institutes in Carlow and Waterford on the one hand, and Cork and Tralee on the other hand. Some are more advanced in the work on this process but they must produce a clear plan of campaign to get to the level of criteria set out in the Hunt reports and the subsequent Higher Education Authority report on the required thresholds for the level of PhD members of staff, the level of PhD students and the amount of research being undertaken in the technological university, as well as its proximity to local businesses and activity in the region where they are located. They must demonstrate all of that in tangible terms rather than aspirational terms. Not only will the HEA evaluate the particular application and enable the successful applicants to go on to the next stage but a group of international experts will examine the qualifications and the gap between the thresholds set by the HEA and the current position of the clusters, that is, the colleges in Cork and Tralee or the colleges in Carlow, Waterford plus some other institutions in the south east area.

There is a reason for doing this. The internationalisation of third level education is such that the standards now are determined internationally rather than nationally and one cannot do what took place under Mrs. Thatcher in the 1980s in Britain. At that time a UK magic wand was waved and it re-branded every polytechnic in Britain and called them universities. Calling those colleges universities unilaterally had no impact on the reputation and perception of the universities in Oxford, Cambridge, St. Andrews in Edinburgh or the London School of Economics but it did have a big impact on other premier league universities in the so-called Russell group. The result was that one could have three universities, for example, Norwich University, the University of East Anglia and the Norwich University of the Arts. Many academics in Britain maintain this has done great damage to the overall infrastructure of third level education in the UK and specifically in England, because it is an English phenomenon.

I am keen to ensure that we provide for the technological university concept. It relates back to the original regional technical college concept, that is, a close proximity to industry and the needs of industry. However, at the same time I wish to protect the quality reputation that Irish education has. I received a text message two days ago from Professor Brian MacCraith from DCU. He said that in the league or category of young universities, that is, universities that are 50 years of age and younger, DCU is now rated 40th in the world, a fantastic tribute to all the people who are associated with it. We must maintain the reputation and quality of all existing third level institutions, including the institutes of technology and the universities. Any progression to technological university status, which is clearly needed and desired in parts of the country, must be matched by meeting a minimum threshold of academic excellence.