John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It actually tolls for democracy. That is for whom it tolls, and I am not on my own in this. I chair the committee by consensus. I have very strong views. Deputy Nash probably differs strongly with some of the views that I express because he asked me in general about the Civil Service and so on, and I do not mind. I try to be accommodating, but I will not stray away from my belief that we must do a job as impartially as possible and a mouse will not suit. I do not know where I am on the spectrum between a mouse and whatever else one is looking for, but it is not close to the mouse.

The next question Deputy Deasy asked was where I thought this was coming from. I read newspaper articles recently where members of this committee admitted that they were under pressure in Fine Gael from their own Ministers. I read it in the Sunday Independent and there were other anonymous remarks about it. I do not ignore that; it happened. That is fine and that may be the case.

What about civil servants? Deputy Deasy is pressing me on this. It is the same answer and he knows the answer. Being on this side of the committee, which I have experienced for the first time today, is not a comfortable place to be. I thought Mr. Elderfield might get me, as well as the country, out of the loop but he has not. I am still here and I am willing to answer the questions. I am sure that there are sets of civil servants who consider the Committee of Public Accounts with not that much respect, with concern or with a view that it is difficult to come here and the Chairman - to use a phrase from Deputy McDonald - might be cranky to say the least. I am not sure whether Deputy McDonald was referring to me, but that is the way I see it. Those civil servants probably do not like that I ask those questions.

Deputy Deasy asks where these matters are coming from. They come from freedom of information requests, but I am damn sure they are being leaked from the Department, whether by freedom of information request or by press inquiry, both of which are two different matters, but there is also other stuff which I am sure is being put into the public domain through one means or another. That is the nature of matters in politics. It is also the nature of matters within the Civil Service. If one goes back over the history of the State, one will see matters being leaked about people, and one can ask where they came from. I believe there are probably powerful forces that would not like to see a banking inquiry conducted, that would not like to see an inquiry into other spending in the State and would prefer to have it lie. I do not take that point of view. I am sorry, I do not. Maybe all those forces are at play. I do not know because now I am back to the other question, the conspiracy theory. I must say to all the members that in all my time in politics, I have never seen such reporting on an individual and his actions in the 18 months of a Ministry as I have seen over recent weeks and since 21 April.