Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Dr. McVeigh and Dr. Mac Laughlin to the meeting and commend them on the work they have done on Travellers' issues and rights and inclusion. Dr. Mac Laughlin spoke about an ethnic intelligentsia among Irish Travellers and how Travellers have clearly shown themselves capable of raising political consciousness about Travellers' issues. We have met some of those Travellers here in this committee and we have all been blown away by their commitment, vision and confidence in themselves. I would love to see more of that coming from the Traveller community. Does Dr. Mac Laughlin have any ideas about how we can create more leaders because I want to get away from the charitable aspect seen in the 1970s and 1980s when the local priest or schoolteacher spoke for the Travellers? I have seen that on the ground. There are tremendous, educated Travellers within the Traveller community who are visionaries. My committee colleagues and I have witnessed it here at first hand.

Dr. Mac Laughlin also raised the issue of the internalisation of feelings of social inferiority among some sections of Traveller society, which has been mentioned by Travellers' groups who have appeared before the committee. This feeling of social inferiority seems to be a major problem in the Ireland of 2013 because of negativity and racism. We are seeing issues around drugs and mental health emerging. Is this due to the internalisation of a feeling of social inferiority among Travellers?

I have a few questions for Dr. McVeigh about broader anti-racism measures and how the fact that legislation exists in Northern Ireland and England does not mean there is a warm house. It is like a protection barrier when there is a crisis. How does one create a warm house? I have heard similar comments made about northern Nationalists during the past 30 years in the North. They always felt it was a cold house for them. Given the conflict in the North and the Good Friday Agreement, there could be some linkage and we could do something to develop it.

In respect of Dr. McVeigh's point about the Nazis, genocide and criminalisation, he said the denial of ethnicity is not an abstract academic debate but a practice grounded in genocide. The number of Gypsies wiped off the face of the earth by the Nazis during the Second World War is often blacked out of history. We regularly hear about the Jews. Is there a figure Dr. McVeigh is aware of?

With regard to education, if we are talking about inclusion and protecting the rights of Travellers, it must not start at second level because I know many second level schools do brilliant work on Travellers but they are working with 14, 15 and 16 year olds. Many of them have been lost so my point is that the focus should be on preschool and primary schools. There are good primary schools that do much work on Travellers' history and culture and bring it into the broader curriculum, but it is not done as a national plan, which could be very important.

Looking across the table at us as public representatives, is there anything else we can do to support the inclusion of Travellers in the Ireland of 2013?