Jillian van Turnhout (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister and the other guests. I wish to make a declaration of interest. I am chair of Early Childhood Ireland, which is a Government role.

I have had an opportunity in the Seanad to express my concerns about the television programme. Therefore, I shall immediately address some of the issues that we must work through. Deputy Troy has asked the HSE direct questions such as when was it informed, did the programme research write to it and what action has been taken. I support his questions and have similar ones. Why did two months elapse before families were informed?

We have all talked about the inspection reports. What will the new inspection reports look like? I have read some of the current inspection reports. If I was a parent trying to choose a child care place I would find them uninformative. They are not like HIQA nursing home reports because one can get used to reading them and thus understand them. I have talked to one child care provider who informed me that an inspector can spend two days on a premises examining the service but only one box will be ticked in the report that merely states that regulation 5 has been fully complied with. That does not share information or provide qualitative data. I would like to be assured that the new inspection report will include a qualitative section and will give us an understanding of the setting. I want to know whether it was a minor fault or is it a far more serious matter which would be of concern to a parent.

Why have no inspections taken place in some areas? When will we be able to say that every child care setting in Ireland has been inspected within the past six months or year? What guarantee do we have that will happen? When will we reach the point and can be assured that every place has been visited?

I seek clarification on the "unannounced" versus the "announced" HSE inspections. My understanding is that the majority of inspections are unannounced but there is a public perception that they are announced. I want it clarified that they are unannounced.

I have spoken to several providers about the regulations. For example, regulation 5 deals with quality, regulation 8 is on ratios, regulation 14 deals with vetting. Providers have told me that it takes eight weeks for a person to be vetted at present. That is the reality faced by a provider when he or she needs staff. There are two issues, ratios and vetting. Providers are faced with the impossible choice of which regulation to break or breach. If a staff member hands in his or her notice tomorrow is there a panel of vetted, qualified people available? Substitute teachers are available in education. Is there the same provision in the child care sector?

I wish to raise an issue about vetting. I tabled amendments on the vetting of childminders when the national vetting bureau Bill was debated in the Seanad. My amendments were not taken on board but we must return to the issue.

Last summer the committee gave great consideration to the heads of the Children First Bill. Several members of the committee and the organisations concerned suggested that emotional abuse should be included in the definitions of abuse. At the time emotional abuse had not been included in the definitions. The "Prime Time" programme clearly showed why emotional abuse must be included in the list of definitions.

That brings me to my next point. Where do staff go? Where are the whistleblowers? As I watched the programme I thought about the staff who work in such settings. Where can they lodge a complaint? The Children First legislation would be one place to turn to if it was enacted. Where can staff go?

I agree with the Minister's comments about professional development and qualifications. Salaries, subvention and ratios are issues when it comes to having higher qualified staff. The equation does not work. We need to talk about the matter.

We need to examine provision for children under three years of age. The State gives a subvention for a preschool year and the Minister has mentioned qualifications. What about children who are under three years of age? Most of the children shown in the programme were under three years of age.

They were not actually in the preschool year. I also have concerns about the revelations on the lack of management. If we are seeking to put in place quality staff and professional development, an issue arises in regard to the preschool year in that it is funded for 39 weeks out of the year. I understand staff are paid for approximately 42 weeks, which means they are expected to go on and off the payroll. Furthermore, they are only paid for their contact hours with children and even a meeting with a parent will take place outside the hours for which they being paid at an extremely low rate.

On the question of registration versus notification, I agree we need a registration system but should it focus on staff, settings or both? How do we reconcile these areas?

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland website states that all restaurants are inspected twice a year, with the less risky ones being inspected once a year. The authority operates a clear system of improvement notices and closure orders. We cannot seem to operate a similar system for child care settings. I agree that the reports should be online but they must also provide information rather than simply indicate whether the boxes are ticked. I want to know what that means in practice.

Child care settings are important but I ask that we put these issues on the agenda in order to reassure parents in particular. I propose that we revisit the subject in six months because I am getting a feeling of déjà vuin that we discuss issues without finding out where they go. I would like to know that we will be examining the issue again in six months time.