Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I join the Chairman in welcoming Ms Ní Chartúir and Ms Ni Mhainín as well as Mr. Loftus and his departmental team to discuss this issue. I particularly welcome Mr. Loftus, as this is his first time to appear before the committee, and I thank him for raising this as an issue and putting together his presentation on it.

The point of view from which I approach this issue is that we need to protect our educational services. In my party's last pre-budget submission we provided for no cuts in the education budget and instead proposed more cuts in other Departments. Nevertheless, my party reduced spending on education when in government. However, we must recognise that we have got to a stage in education at which there is no potential for any more cuts, as anything that is introduced has a large effect on educational services. That is no more so the case than in one-, two-, three- and four-teacher schools, and that is particularly visible in the Gaeltacht schools which the our guests are here today to discuss. They have had to absorb a number of very difficult cuts which have undoubtedly had an impact on the schools. They have outlined the impact, in particular, on the pupil-teacher ratio. For Gaeltacht schools, 80% of which have four teachers or fewer, the cuts in the capitation grant and particularly the cut in the minor works grant are having a significant impact. The value of the minor works grant would be a minimum of €5,000 for any applicant school, regardless of how small, and the cut in the payment of that grant is having an impact. Last autumn was the first time that grant was not paid. Research has been done and there is evidence to show that more than half of primary schools are now in deficit and ran a deficit last year. That grant will not be paid this autumn and it is then we will see a funding cliff for many of our primary schools.

I recently visited a 70-teacher school that had applied for a minor works grant of €7,000 the year prior to the cutting of the grant for carrying out essential repairs. The grant was not paid to schools last year and it will not be paid this year. In the case of that school, it had to fund-raise to gather that €7,000 on top of everything else. That figure would amount to €100 per pupil, but the families of those pupils would not have the potential to absorb that expense as they are otherwise under exceptional financial stress.

On the point concerning pupil-teacher ratios, will our guests from the schools division and from the Department outline the genesis of the lower retention rate for Gaeltacht schools? If we go back to 2011-12, the number of pupils required for the retention of three teachers was 76 for a Gaeltacht school, as opposed to 83 for Gaelscoileanna and for primary schools, and the number of pupils required to retain four teachers was 96 for a Gaeltacht school, as opposed to 115 for Gaelscoileanna and for primary schools. I am interested in the rationale for a lower retention rate for Gaeltacht schools vis-à-vis other schools of a similar size that are English-speaking, and particularly in the reason it applies to Gaeltacht schools but not Gaelscoileanna. I have no doubt that lower retention rate has made a big difference, but why was it not in place for other schools?

Focusing on the pupil-teacher ratio that has had to be applied by Gaeltacht schools and other small schools in recent times, from 2012 the ratio for one-teacher schools will increase from 12 pupils to 20 pupils. Any school that does not have a minimum of 20 pupils this September will lose a teacher the following year. For two-teacher schools, the figure will increase from 49 to 56 pupils this September and for three-teacher schools it will increase from 81 to 86 this September. As our guest rightly pointed out, the impact of that change for Gaeltacht schools is even more significant, with the figure increasing from 76 to 86. Those are significant increases and they will make it difficult for schools to continue to teach students in the way they would like to and have done up to now. The reason there is a preferential pupil-teacher ratio for smaller schools is that it is more difficult for one teacher to teach a number of classes than it is for a teacher in schools with eight or more teachers to teach one class, although there may be different learning grades within it. I would like an answer to those questions. I would like our guests to outline what they want the Department to do on foot of this meeting and what they would request the Minister to do. I have a good idea what that is but I would like them to specify their requests.