Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I join in the welcome to the delegation. I watched much of this meeting on my monitor, as I could not attend. To put this in context, we are constantly referring to experts to determine solutions. We can see climate change, but the cause is not uniformly agreed. I had the opportunity to attend a conference and participate in an element on peak oil. It was an interesting debate, as even people from oil producing nations, including the US, were present. We discuss renewable energy and the development of those resources in Ireland. According to every graph that was presented, and regardless of how one looked at it, sourcing energy from renewable resources around the world was virtually a pinhead. Even if some of the science might be lost on lay people, the global dependence on fossil fuels is tremendous. It can also provide context. One does not need to be a scientist to appreciate the consequences of the situation.

When discussing targets and this Bill, we should have regard to the experience of businesses and individuals on the ground. As Deputy Murphy stated, a dialogue is required, as a paradigm shift is necessary in terms of how we relate to the environment. We are becoming more aware of the fact that we live in an environment and that if it is impaired in some way on the other side of the planet it will catch up with us as well. This is the case in the global village.

We are bound to targets. I would never take from that position. We have an abusive relationship with what we extract from the ground and how we use finite resources. We must be more cyclical, as our needs will continue after those resources are gone.

Fuel poverty presents a significant problem. The refitting and upgrading of homes are under discussion. For example, oil-fired central heating systems have been installed and back boilers have been removed in some local authority housing in recent years. As I am sure members have encountered, the reason for the lack of carbon emissions is because people cannot afford to put oil in their tanks. A carbon tax is applied to coal people buy for their fireplaces. What will happen to these people? They should not go without. We would like people to be able to enjoy a basic standard. This is how we live. We must temper any measure introduced with the reality. While it is all very well to introduce carbon taxes, how will hard-pressed people afford them? I am not just referring to people in local authority or social housing but to other people who cannot afford to put oil in their tanks or to install new heating systems and are not in the vicinity of a gas supply or a fuel source with fewer emissions. These are real problems.

Transport presents a major problem. The forecourt is all about oil. Until it provides other types of fuel that have fewer carbon emissions – I am not just referring to batteries – we will not hit any target. This applies across the board.

We must show leadership in the development of renewable energy. Wind is the most advanced of the industries. Much of the misinformation that is presented as fact needs to be debunked. It is not just for politicians or experts to claim they know best. There must be a real and significant dialogue with people. We must discuss the possible economic benefits as well as the environment so that people can be given a vision of how life may look and can buy into the idea of, for example, the necessity of transmission lines. It is all very well to point to our considerable wind and wave energy resources, but people, and politicians in particular, are jumping on the band wagon at meetings. I accept that people have fears, but these can be allayed, discussed and put in context. However, when all that a politician does is put oil on the fire of fear, it shows poor leadership.

One is not abandoning people in saying they want to be able to flick a switch and have cheaper power but that in the long run they should opt for renewables. There must be a responsible conversation.

With regard to wind turbines, it is not easy dealing with people when they have been whipped up into a fury of protest. I will provide the example of several councillors who went to see a wind farm. They got out of a bus and could see a wind turbine a good distance away in the field. They turned around to the man who was facilitating the trip and asked whether it was noisy. The man asked them to turn around and showed them a wind turbine right behind them. Turbines do not turn if there is no wind; therefore, we cannot hear them. When the wind is blowing, we do not hear things so well. I am not saying people are not affected by them, but farmers are also affected when roads pass through the middle of their farms. People were affected when powerlines were routed through farms. The dialogue is on the issue of whether the people who bear the burden of the infrastructure, whether it be transmission cables or turbines, can be accommodated or rewarded. That dialogue does not just involve those who receive compensation for having something on their lands. It also involves the communities that bear the burden of the infrastructure to be used in renewable energy projects. They must be looked after properly.

Notwithstanding what has been said about the mistrust of politicians, people do listen and politicians have a platform. They must be informed and listen to people, not just hold up their hands and say they are with the people on this issue and that the big bad guys are out there. Politicians should not sell a lie about what it will take to achieve economic recovery and future growth.