Dr. Anne Jeffers:

On the question as to how we stop psychiatrists breaking the law, as psychiatrists, we do not want to get involved in anything that is not our job. As psychiatrists, we see ourselves as dealing with people who are vulnerable. Similarly to the obstetricians, we believe that the people, to whom this law will apply, will be coming to us anyway. I do not think a situation will arise where there will be opportunities for that.

On the next point on being contacted by the Department, I have not had any contact. On the fact that it is not appropriate for a psychiatrist to be involved in this process, as I said earlier, if we look at the numbers of Irish women who are having abortions in the UK, the vast majority of those women are mentally and physically healthy, and that has nothing to do with psychiatrists or psychiatry. Our concern and my concern would be for vulnerable women - the women who are making decisions to have an abortion and it may be the wrong decision for them, or the women who are travelling for abortions who are quite convinced that the only alternative to an abortion is to kill themselves. I feel we have a responsibility both as a State and as psychiatrists to see those vulnerable women.

On capacity and consent even though somebody is suicidal we see that all the time. People can have the legal capacity to make decisions even though they are very distressed.

I was asked whether there is any other situation where a psychiatrist would certify against someone else's best interest. We would emphasise - the law is very clear on this - that we are there in the best interest of the mother and the unborn. We are only talking about situations where if the mother dies the unborn also dies.

Is there any evidence to support that the psychiatrist has no way of knowing whether the abortion would, in fact, worsen her mental health? Certainly a vulnerable woman who has a termination in a country where she can receive care and support is surely in a much better position than a woman who feels she has to leave the State to have that termination.

On the issue about normalising suicide, we are very aware that we have a very serious problem with suicide. Reference was made to seeking a mortgage reduction. Tragically many people have completed suicide because of financial difficulties. In recent years, as general adult psychiatrists, we would have seen many people who on the face of it may have looked as if it was financial difficulties but in fact people, who have survived serious suicide attempts and have had an opportunity for expert and specialist care, have been able to work with us in resolving the difficulties and issues they have. It gets back to the point that for anybody who is suicidal the important thing is having the opportunity to talk about it to have that non-judgmental compassionate hearing where we can sit down with them and try to work out what the problems are and that there is always another option other than killing themselves.

On the college of psychiatry and the quotation of the report, once again I must warn - we have heard it from the beginning - about any evidence. This is a group that is extremely difficult to have any evidence on and we have to be very aware of the tendency towards bias.