Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chairman for the job he is doing, which is difficult. Underpinning my questions is the fact that I would not like there to be a chilling effect on legislators or specialists doing their best to understand what the evidence says. That is a job we must all do. It is quite clear from Dr. Coulter-Smith's paper that it is a job he and his colleagues, as obstetricians, must do having regard to what they have learned from their psychiatric colleagues. I do not think my friend, Senator Crown, necessarily intended it but it is important to remember that we must respect one another's genuine search.

I have two housekeeping questions that we should ask of all our guests and they are meant in the best spirit. Do our guests mind telling us whether they were consulted in any way by the Department of Health or the HSE post the expert group in the preparation of the heads? I have not had the chance to read the papers in detail but Dr. Coulter-Smith said he was here to give the views of himself and his colleagues in the Rotunda Hospital. Are our other guests here in a purely personal capacity, are they speaking for their colleagues or a majority of their colleagues, or did they consult among colleagues?

My second question concerns Dr. Mahony's point about the X case. She posited the test of the possibility and the challenge is that the Supreme Court in the X case found, without the benefit of a psychiatrist in the High Court, that it was where there was a probability. The difficulty seems to be whether there is any evidence on which psychiatrists could rely that could allow them to say that, as a matter of probability, this will happen. I ask Dr. Coulter-Smith if that lies under his statement about enacting and underpinning the idea that the termination of pregnancy is a solution when there is no evidence to support the intervention. It creates a major ethical dilemma for the profession.

Building on that, the legislation does not just put the obstetrician in the role of carrying out the procedure but of certifier. The obstetrician's certification is necessary along with that of the two psychiatrists. In the same way that under head 2, the doctors are faced with a child of 20 weeks in the womb and every effort will be made to bring two patients out safely and hold off on treatment, as Dr. Mahony and others said. In exercising the certification role, would the witnesses consider asking the psychiatrists whether it is possible to delay the procedure to get the child to the point where it could be delivered not just prematurely but also safely and well?