Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the representatives for their presentations. As there is much to take on board I think some of it will be for another day. It goes without saying that basic sanitation and a roof over one's head is a fundamental human right. I reiterate what Deputy Ellis said in that there is a major housing crisis. Unfortunately, people could be pitched against each other in that housing crisis because many are forced into temporary arrangements whereas a permanent arrangement would be in their long-term interest. There are approximately 100,000 families on housing waiting lists with little prospect of a permanent solution, much of which is related to the current financial situation. We did not get to a housing waiting list of 100,000 households in the past couple of years; the list has built up over a period.

I have a few questions for the local authorities and Mr. Martin Collins. In regard to the drawdown of funds for refurbishments I am aware from my area, which is not represented by the local authorities today, that there are some vacant houses which are reasonably good but need to be upgraded before they can be re-let. It appears there is a battle with the Department to release funds for that purpose while at the same time people are in private rented accommodation. That does not make sense. It is a silo-based approach where reasonably good housing could be allocated to a small number of people.

It might be small numbers but, at the same time, it is there. Is that kind of pattern happening in the other local authority areas also?

Language can be used such as "returning funds" rather than "not drawing funds down", which can misrepresent a situation, and I do not believe it is in anyone's interest that the situation is misrepresented. We need an honest assessment of what money is available to be used to deliver on the programme. One can often find the Department is almost trying to present it as if the local authorities are not doing something, and that this somehow gets the Department off the hook.

If Travellers, for example, opt for traditional housing, I presume this will come out of the general allocation for housing and, in fact, it cannot be drawn down under Traveller-specific programmes. If there are 100,000 people on the waiting list, the chances of being housed are remote given that no houses are being built. Is it a question that we are not drawing down funds that are actually there? This is an issue I simply cannot get my head around. I am watching what is going on in my area, and it does not seem the money is available to be drawn down.

My other point concerns the national Traveller agency. I completely accept there is a cross-agency requirement, whether in regard to health, education, training or other issues, but we have a terrible habit of fragmentation. Has it been worked out how a national Traveller agency would work with agencies that are in place at present and which the witnesses might feel are not delivering? What would that Traveller agency do differently? I would be curious to know how it would work and deliver differently. We tend to take a very silo-based approach to things, and that is not just an issue for Travellers. For any group that has a need that goes beyond a housing need, we tend not to be able to put those agencies together.