John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I would like to reflect on this for a minute. I read in a report that the HSE has approximately 70,000 vendors - people who provide goods and services to it. Most of the answers given today, in response to the aged debt issue that was raised by Deputy O'Donnell and other matters, would be on the tip of the tongue of most people in the commercial world. They would need to have that knowledge at their fingertips. The HSE does not function in that way, for some reason. Mr. O'Brien and his officials have to understand how the members of this committee grow tired of the same argument - that no proper system of accounting, analysis or management is in place - being put again and again. The public is growing tired of it too.

I read somewhere that the SAP system runs right across some of the eight or nine centres of accountability. It appears from my analysis that while it might not be possible to buy it off the shelf, it has been checked and used by commercial entities all over the world. If this software product has been identified, it should not be beyond the HSE to arrange for it to be applied. I do not suggest this is the solution. I do not know. I know it is being used in some parts of the organisation. Surely Mr. Heffernan's department wants to see this resolved. The sooner that is done, the better. Our report mentions it.

I am not content merely to produce a report, lay it before the Houses and give a copy of it to Mr. O'Brien in the HSE. We want to see some action on foot of it. Quite frankly, I do not consider his replies today to amount to a great deal of action. It does not appear to me that he is greatly exercised by it. I would hope that he would be. I am not making this directly personal to anybody. It is frustrating that two big organisations - the Department and the HSE - do not seem to be getting to grips with a huge problem that is mentioned time and again in reports. There is no clear pathway to defining the cost, getting the product, putting it in place and getting the problem sorted out. I ask that the report be taken seriously and that the matter be dealt with by the HSE and the Department. We can revisit it when the witnesses are here at a future date.

I would like to touch on the matter of payroll. How much does it cost the section in question to deliver payroll to the HSE?