Mr. Gay Mitchell, MEP:

Let me comment on Deputy Kyne's contribution. I think he is wrong about the Catholic Church. I think the Catholic Church gets too much of this type of comment.

People have big families because they believe they have greater security by having big families. The lowest rates of HIV and the lowest rate of AIDS in the developing world are in countries in which Catholic support is in place. It has nothing to do with Catholicism. In fact the Catholic Church is one of the major voluntary supporters of development aid, which I know from my role as leader of the EPP on the development committee. We try to find practical ways to assist people.

Deputy Dooley asked a number of questions and I think they came up with others as well.

Let us consider the issue of solidarity. We were getting up to €160 billion at 1% and now the rate is less than 1% and approximately €100 billion was made available in liquidity funds for our banks from the European Central Bank. We pay one third of the market rate on our borrowings. Because of our ability to get support from the troika, our sovereign bond yields have come down dramatically. We talk about austerity. Our debt to GDP ratio is supposed to be in the region of the height of the Customs House. It is already higher than Liberty Hall and we are adding a couple of floors every year. We are left with the choice to either saddle our children and their children with this debt to sort out the problem now. If we do not sort out the problem now, they will have plenty of jobs in Boston and Cricklewood, however we are trying to create jobs in Ireland.

When did this happen before? From 1981 to 1987 we could not get agreement or control in the public finances. I was elected three times to Dáil Eireann during 1981-82 and a minority Fianna Fáil Government was formed in 1987 and we in Fine Gael supported it to make the necessary cuts. We left the vicious circle to become part of the virtuous circle, confidence was created and investment returned and jobs were created. That is what is happening here. We did not get a 30% increase in foreign direct investment in Ireland in 2011 because people simply liked the colour of our eyes. They look at our country and see that we are prepared to make sacrifices, not just the Government and politicians but people voted for a pact which was difficult for them to do. The sacrifices are paying dividends and will pay dividends. There will be jobs. We can talk ourselves into pessimism but we must be realistic about the opportunities ahead.

We have just concluded our discussion on the MFF, and Deputy O'Reilly questioned whether it would go through Parliament. I think it will go through Parliament but not in the format that has been agreed by the European Council. We will not rubber-stamp anything that has been decided by another institution. We are Parliament and are a separate institution and I would be quite happy that Parliament will make changes.

We have been a member of the European Union for 40 years. We are not net contributors to the budget yet, in spite of the Celtic tiger years nor are we forecast to become a contributor during the period of the MFF.

We eulogise the United Nations. Did we ever have such solidarity from the United Nations? When did we ever hold the post of Secretary General of the United Nations? When did we ever have a commissioner or a Minister with such a role in the UN, in the way we play our role in the European Union? We criticise the body that has done most for this country and eulogise the body that is dominated by the super powers.

The issue of returning power to individual states was raised. I do not want to give powers back because the powers that go back will go back to the Bundestag, the House of Commons and the French National Assembly. We will get some powers, but what is best for Ireland is when we can pool power and exercise them together and the Commission acts as the independent proposer of laws under those powers. We are in the Union and are treated in the same way as everybody else. That suits the smaller member states. Does one want to return to national domination as that does not suit smaller countries. I am not in favour of it.

In some countries, MEPs can address their parliament on EU issues in plenary session. That helps to close the gap. The members present know that few people ask them about their work on this committee or other committees. Nobody puts a value on this work, however they value the work members do in their clinics and on the ground. People may say that they only see you at election time, no matter how much they see you. I do not think we should be bound by that. We would live in a jungle if it was not for the fact that there are 140 odd judges. The only judges the public hear about are those dealing with murder and rape but the other judges are doing their job every single day as part of the judicial wing of government. It is our job as public representatives, whether we are Senators, TDs or MEPs to do the same. It does not count when one is in the media. What counts is whether one does a job. That is what really counts. It is very hard to get across to people, when one is involved in serious work what that work is about. Europe will have 6% of the world's population in a very short period. It was projected that the figure would be reached in 2050, but they are now saying we will reach that figure in 2030. Countries such as Brazil, China, the United States, Russia and countries that we do not yet see in that way could be powerful. The more we do together to play a role in the world, the better it will be for us. It will lead to jobs.

Deputy Donohoe raised the British situation. I quite understand the situation in Britain. We import more from Britain than from Latin America and Japan added together. We are important to it as well as its being important to us. The British people and Parliament must make a decision on the European Union in time. I think more and more that if it comes to a decision of remaining in or leaving the EU, people will start to hear the counter arguments that they are not hearing at present. Should the Prime Minister decide they want to be part of the Single Market, they must comply with the rules, but the rules are made by MEPs and Ministers and commissioners and the central bank and the courts have a role. If Britain leaves the EU it will have no presence on any of those bodies and yet would have to comply with the rules. I think we have only heard one part of the argument.

I want to tell Deputy Durkan that we can all be impressed by terms, but what works in practice is important. We in the Christian Democrats want to put "social" back in the social market economy. For far too long, we gave a free hand to the market and there is no such thing as the market. I recommend that members read a book entitled Finance and the Good Society by Professor Robert Shiller and learn what he says about the markets. Markets should be opened up to profit and loss and should be properly regulated. Business people should behave in an ethical manner. I am a businessman, my business is politics. I think politicians have been getting it right and it is time business people got it right as well. I make no apologies for people who have been doing things the wrong way round.

I had better allow other speakers to contribute, but may I make one last point? It concerns bank supervision which will happen. This is necessary and it is good that it should happen because with that will come a recapitalisation of the banks. If our debt-to-GDP ratio is eventually to decline to 60% it has to be measured the same way here as it is in every other country. Therefore, I believe it is inevitable that recapitalisation will be also made available to Ireland. We probably will not have to draw it down at that stage because the markets may say they will give it to us at a cheaper rate, but it is likely it will be available in future. There are many reasons to be optimistic and I am hopeful about the future. Solidarity among ourselves as a people, however, is missing. We should have that debate here in Ireland. We should be talking more about solidarity to help people who cannot get through this.