Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

First, and most important, I give a very warm welcome to the beneficiaries of the scheme, some of whom are present. I recognise some individuals who gave an excellent account of themselves and their situations on our television screens in recent weeks.

However, I must take extreme exception, although I am sorry to do so. I appreciate that the representatives of the Department of Health have attended today but I must put the following question to them. Did they and the relevant Ministers treat the members and chairman of this committee with utter contempt on the last day they attended to give evidence? At that stage did they not know this option was one they were considering seriously? I listened very carefully to what they said. However, I have been reliably informed since this came to light that on that day, the decision was being taken in conjunction with the Department and our Ministers, and the Department officials were actively considering the discontinuation of both schemes.

I want the Department officials to tell me I am wrong in making that accusation. They attended this committee where they are sworn to give evidence that is honest and truthful, where Ministers attend to give an honest and truthful account of both their actions and those of their Department, yet it has come to light that the representatives misled each one of us and our Chairman at the last meeting of this committee which was set up by the Government in the hope of achieving openness and transparency. Ministers were in attendance, yet the officials never indicated to us in the slightest fashion that what would happen would be what I call the nuclear button. At the last meeting the Minister said to us that we could not afford to comply with the law. I compare that with a person caught by gardaí for having no car tax who says: "I am all right, guard, I can't afford to tax the car so it's fine." What the Minister said to us was: "I can't afford to be compliant with the law."

Did every representative know at the time they were going to do this? If they did, that is fine. I would respect that, as I respect the constraints within which they are working. However, they should have been honest and transparent with us. On that day they or their Ministers should have stated they were proposing the discontinuation of the two schemes. They did not indicate as much to us and I feel very strongly about that. We are just ordinary members of this committee, along with our Chairman, and that was a disgraceful way to treat us. This is not about us but about the people who are receiving the money, or the grant. It is all about them. What way were they treated? If the representatives treated us with contempt, how did they treat those people? They should have let us know they were proposing to discontinue this scheme.

That is the charge I have to make, and it is one I am sorry to have to make. However, I have reliable information that leads me to make it.