Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

I hope it does not take me 20 years. I am doing my best. I appreciate the committee's impatience. In my second interview, which led to my recruitment to Ireland, I quipped that I wanted to bring some evidence-based impatience. I want to drive that forward. This relates to the question of the early starting point, once the other criteria are in place, in particular the financial reporting systems. Important points were made about the need to see the complete picture and to have an end date for conclusion of the discussions, which the agency cannot have on its own because this is about the values and relationships it has with the remainder of the health service. We need to know our template and the template for integration of the component parts of the health service. There needs to be further consultation around the best working relationships in the interests of children, families, communities and the groups involved.

On Ms Flaherty's reference earlier to the 20% grant, I am pleased if she is referring it to contracted work because that is how I see it. We are both speaking of the same figure. I am well aware of Mr. Finlay's success with the Big Brother Big Sister programme. There are many well-funded programmes in other jurisdictions, including urban aid in the UK in the area of technical and vocational education, in which millions have been invested. However, mainstreaming them is an issue. It is an issue Ireland will have to face in a few years, having had significant and important contributions from philanthropy. It is not for me to say from where finance should come. It is, however, for me to ensure that the money I spend on behalf of the taxpayer is spent on initiatives which have an evidence base. We will be looking to do this within finite resources. I recently met Foróige to discuss its budget, the range of contracts it has with us and the ways we can reduce non-productive costs, thus ensuring we get value for money throughout the system.

On Deputy Healy's question, I am never satisfied in terms of driving forward the resources that I have and ensuring we are getting the best from every member of staff. I am deeply conscious that the notion of having a single health service in a country the size of Ireland, which is comparable to Scotland, seemed sensible. If I was not paying attention and learning the lessons of why, in a period of only a few years, it did not work I would not be doing my job. I am trying to avoid some of the issues that led to the later defensiveness of that organisation and how it was perceived by the public. Certain issues within the organisation were centrally controlled while in other aspects of it there was no consistent or strategic management. As a public servant in Ireland, I must be conscious of the constraints. Ireland is not in charge of its own destiny and as such there are constraints on the finances of and recruitment within the agency.

On the Deputy's question of whether in my view with all of the constraints we can do a better job, the answer is yes. I believe we can do a significantly better job with shorter lines of accountability. I am not always comfortable with the word "empowerment" because I am not sure I know how to empower people. I am not sure anybody empowered Václav Havel or Nelson Mandela. I do, however, know that poor managers can disempower people and that this has happened. I can encourage people, set boundaries and responsibilities and seek to provide the best possible service. Through the production of annual standards and quality reports, I am confident of a process of continued improvement.

I can only repeat my reassurance about family resource centres respecting their culture and ethos while setting a challenging environment within the terms they apply to themselves. I am happy to reiterate that confirmation, as I have at their conference and as I do when I visit them. I want them to work effectively to avoid overlap and duplication and to ensure we have more formula-based approaches, in terms of resources, countrywide. Currently, psychologists are employed by the HSE and work with many groups, including children. There is no question of their remaining within the HSE. The status quo is not an option. My understanding is that the HSE will change. My preferred position, as the relationships between the component parts are examined, would be that psychologists would be hosted within the child and family support agency.

On Deputy Catherine Byrne's question, there is a need to develop a whole range of issues in terms of how children can be safe within their families and communities and to ensure the agency intervenes proportionately, building on family strengths and only when necessary. We will work with family resource centres and other community groups in terms of good models of intervention from which families have previously been happy to take advice. We do not want a social work referral approach, with people getting a telling off. We need to keep children safe from harm. We need to move on in Ireland from the "refer-on" culture whereby one person refers on a child to another person.

We need to get to a confident stage where it is not a case of what I am going to do about it but what we are going to do about it.

I recognise that in getting to that point I still have work to do to ensure we have the credibility that the hard-working staff for whom I am responsible deserve. Whether real or perceived, there has been a credibility gap, and with the diversity of resources through family resource centres, the National Educational Welfare Board programmes for school completion, home school links and attendance, I am sure we can free ourselves to reimagine and bring out new ways of working, as we believe in subsidiarity and local delivery, although to national standards and consistency.