John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Mr. Foghlú cannot say that definitively because the scheme has not been put out to tender. I am not following the court case, which was mentioned by Deputy Donohoe. I am following the principle of spending €152 million of taxpayers' money and the additional €11.5 million in charges collected by Bus Éireann. The Department refuses to go to tender in respect of this amount of money, even if only to put its mind at ease. There are companies in the private sector who have the required expertise in this regard because they have been operating buses and making money in difficult times. The management company mentioned is not a rare animal either. It could be established to accommodate a tender process. Surely, the test of value for money is to tender in respect of the €152 million. It is almost unacceptable in this day and age that the Department would be doing what it is doing in relation to the school transport system.

I have not in any of the discussion we have heard thus far heard the end user being mentioned. I hear nothing but complaints about the school transport system, in terms of management of applications and use of the service. It would be much easier if, as a public representative, I could point to a process that is transparent, which, to me, the current system is not. I have tried over a number of meetings to get precise information from different accounting officers and CIE. This is another attempt to do so. How can the Department stand over the quality of the tender process operated by CIE? I have heard some startling stories in terms of the provision under this scheme of school transport. I would like to be able to stand over the quality of the procurement process relative to those small operators and how CIE operates the system.

With regard to the audit going on in CIE, how is the money used and what of the question of cross-subsidisation? What is the written message from auditors with regard to inspection of all these processes? How confident are they that cross-subsidisation does not happen? How confident are they about the quality of the tendering process into which Bus Éireann enters with other subcontractors? Will the witness outline the obstacles within the Department that prevent it from going to tender?