Mr. Mark Johnson:

We use the term "hard-to-reach group" and for me they are easy to reach. The group that is hard to reach is the staff of the services. It comes down to a person's personal sense of security. Often the dysfunctional sort of conversation that one might have is: "You can do this better than me, so what am I doing?" That shows a lack of understanding about being a professional. By far the biggest barrier and the thing that can allow the council concept to stagnate are staff and power holders blocking it. While I could not have imagined this, I met representatives of the Prison Officers Association here who were really positive about this. In the UK we have had contrasting conversations where the representatives have not been supportive. However, here the conversation was with the general secretary who said they would support anything that would reduce staff assaults or disturbances in prisons and improve the environment in which people work. We have evidence to suggest that this model does that.