Mr. Flor McCarthy:

The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the National Parks and Wildlife Service. We asked several times for examples for commonages. The representatives were on two commonages actually and I was on one commonage with them myself. They did not give us examples. One cannot make a decision on anything until one has the figures. The first time we saw the figures was when they appeared in the journal. We knew the consequences automatically. On my commonage, the minimum stocking rate is 3.3 ewes per hectare. The top of Carrauntoohill is covered with snow for three or four months per year. The rate should be approximately 1.5 ewes per hectare. There are commonages in Kerry where one can drive a jeep to the top, yet the rate is one ewe per hectare. One does not need a high level of intelligence to realise the figures are wrong. We want control over the figures for our own land. We do not want the Department dictating to us. However, if we stand idly by, the Department will impose the figures on us. We have to react and that is what we did. We met the Minister and hope he will put the independent chairman in place to deal with the matter. We would love to have control. That is the ideal scenario. It would be as it always was. Unfortunately, it appears from what we are seeing that this will not prevail.

As every farmer knows, the single payment, disadvantaged areas payment and environmental payments comprise our income. We will protect these at all costs. As a farmer, it is all about protecting my income. I depend totally on farming and cannot just hang my two hands by my side and let the Department impose rules on me. I have to drive on and try to obtain some kind of workable solution. What we are proposing is a plan for seven years over which farmers will have control. Obviously, we would prefer to be working to our own plan with no outside interference but it appears we cannot draw down a single payment under this model. We would love to be able to do so. If the committee can influence the Minister and put pressure on him in the Dáil, we will welcome it.

Reference was made to the environmental programmes. We obviously realise the financial circumstances of the country. We want a proper environmental scheme because we realise disadvantaged areas schemes and environmental schemes comprise and have comprised an important part of hill farming. We fully support what the Deputy says in that regard.

Let us consider another reality we face in respect of the Minister and the withdrawal of plans. We met the Department representatives last Friday week and noted they are still talking about proceeding with these plans. It is a serious worry for us as farmers that this is still in the background. We must deal with that. We could bury our heads in the sand and just hope what I describe will not happen. I would love to believe that approach would be successful but I have a strong feeling it will not be at this stage.

Given what is happening in Brussels, there will be increases to the single payment for the lands in question. The payment will, therefore, become more important and consequently the plans will become more important. More money will hinge on them and that is the reality for every farmer.

I could not agree more with Deputy Ferris on the farm assist scheme cut. Farmers on the scheme were the only farmers on social welfare benefit that were attacked. We have lobbied all the Members extensively on this, obviously without success. As members are aware, none of the budget decisions was reversed. The Government has a big majority but we have a major problem with the cuts to the scheme.

Dormant shares are obviously a problem. IFA policy is always that everyone should get paid. We do not lobby for cuts; we lobby for everybody to get paid. The Department or European Union takes decisions, perhaps not to pay certain individuals. Our policy always has been and will be that everybody should be paid with his little red tape as possible. We do not want rules and regulations. I, as a farmer rather than a representative, want to be able to access my money as easily as possible. We do not live in our own world and are governed according to schemes designed in Europe. We are all willing to obey the rules once they are workable but we do not want rules imposed on us without consultation.

A Deputy asked about the appeals system. Of course, we need an appeals system. If what is imposed on us is totally unworkable, we have to react. If what was in the journal is imposed, we will say "No" because we have to. The proposal is totally unworkable, but we are willing to work within a framework to get money.

Senator Healy Eames referred to stocking rates in Connemara, which have been significantly affected. I have been in the region myself and have met the farmers. I noted their concerns. The only real concern is that they will be able to access their single payment, their money. This applies to us all, no matter whether we farm in Kerry or Donegal.