Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

First, I have absolute confidence in Deputy John Perry. Not only is he totally committed to the small business sector, he also knows a great deal about what is happening in that sector. For a long number of years he has been pointing to the vulnerability of some elements of the small business sector, particularly the retail area and the over-shopping that was allowed to be developed during the boom years. He has an acute understanding and if people had listened more to his warnings about the hazards of what was happening during the boom years, we would be in a stronger position now.

Clearly, upward-only rent is a major concern. Everybody went into this in good faith, hoping a solution could be found. There has not been a possibility of a solution other than the State, through the taxpayer, compensating individuals for any loss incurred in the revision of an upward-only rent. That option is not open to us in the current financial climate in the State. To be fair, the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, which is a big property owner on behalf of the State, has applied changes in its rules. I believe the penny has dropped with landlords to some degree as to the true state of businesses and many rents are being negotiated down. That is not to say it does not remain an issue, because it does. Certainly, it was an issue in the B&Q case. There is no doubt that there are individual areas where very high rents are a problem.

On the overall data on job creation, I have the provisional 2012 figures. The number of jobs created was 6,905 gross and under 1,000 net. There were job losses in the sector as well as gains. Roughly speaking, the cost per job sustained is approximately €6,000. Clearly, we take into account that it has to be assessed over a number of years to see the overall impact. In total, nearly 1,000 projects were assisted and there were many participants in soft support, as it were. I can get the breakdown by county for the Deputy as it is available. As regards the type of comment received, Claire Madigan has been going through them.

I have read some of them but not them all. We are going through them exhaustively. We intend to publish them in their entirety so people will have access to them.

There is a mixed bag of reactions. By and large, everyone recognises that this is a matter that we need to get right. There has been much comment on how we could make the centre of excellence one of really good quality such that it will provide a new sense of leadership in the sector. Deputy Tóibín acknowledged this was in a little bit of a no-man's-land. We will be building on the existing strengths of the CEBs. We also hope to deliver in other ways.

There is ongoing comment on whether the local authority is the right home for what is proposed. From the start, this has been an area of debate. We are moving from one system to another so there will naturally be some criticism, but we are determined to make the partnership really work. It is important for the future of local authorities that they be able to administer on a devolved basis for Departments such as mine, deliver a high-quality service and bring their unique skills to the party. By this I mean enterprise development in their neighbourhoods. I accept this is a new departure but we are determined to make it work.

I did not see Mr. Niall O'Donnell's full statement but I could not disagree with him if he is saying the banks are not fit for purpose. The banks became organisations that were built around debt, property, construction and commission earning. They must completely reorient themselves to become organisations built around relationships, small business and exporting. That is a journey that they certainly have not completed. However, to be fair to them, they are on that journey. Many of them are making significant changes that will bring much better staff into decision-making positions, but one need only look at the statistics to note that we have one of the highest refusal rates in Europe. There is still a considerable turnover of decisions by the CRO, which indicates that that office does not feel the banks are making the necessary decisions. Not enough cases are getting to the CRO. The banks need to make a lot more progress to have a system that serves the SME sector, including the SME exporting sector. They are working on it, however, and we are working with them. The Government is holding them to account and, through bodies such as Enterprise Ireland, we are trying increasingly to get them to build sectoral knowledge and engage in the sort of relationship banking that is important.

With regard to how one forces the banks to do something, there is an element of carrot and stick. While we have a shareholding in the banks, we cannot abandon the fact that they are responsible for evaluating risk. The taxpayer does not evaluate risk. We want to reach a point at which we can recover the taxpayers' money from the banks. It is important that they become capable of standing on their own and providing a service of excellent quality to small export-oriented businesses. This is the route we must go. It is not a question of politicians telling the banks that they must lend to particular individuals. There is a process of change that we need to oversee within the banks.