Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Others started their contributions by referring to the small number of people who have been through the courts but there are other kinds of corruption of a process. It is clear that our system favoured landowners and developers and we have ended up with a very costly outcome and it is incredibly expensive to service that by way of wastewater treatment plants, social supports, public transport and so on. We should not have such a narrow focus on what corrupts a process. We have also had examples of good behaviour and we have got to learn from those. In Kildare we took a strategic approach, for example, in our development plan in the mid-1990s which was a strategy for the development of the county, where we indicated the amount of land that should be zoned and how that would match against the population. It transformed the approach taken and after that the area committees did the work on the pieces of land that would be appropriate. That would have been informed, for example, by whether the land was subject to flooding or other constraints.

If we put the systems in place we influence behaviour and it is correct that a more strategic approach is taken in terms of having a core strategy but there must be some test for that core strategy and some sanctions if it is deviated from because there will be a temptation to go marginally over or whatever. I am not saying that everything worked out perfectly in Kildare but the approach taken reduced the more negative impacts the plan might have had.

The Mahon report refers to the regional authorities. I thought the regional authorities had quite a positive impact. I refer to page 2543, under planning, which recommends what each regional authority should be required to do. There could be an enhanced role for regional authorities and there should be a connection between land use and transportation planning. There should be a social plan that goes along with the physical plan because there is no point in building a great number of houses if there is not the necessary capacity in schools or the ability to deal with what is required. When putting together a core strategy that strategy would have to be informed by the deficiencies in terms of the social supports, be that schools, leisure facilities, transport or whatever.

The democratic aspect of this process should be retained but with sanctions. For example, when a council is preparing a county plan it will have its regional plan but it is when it gets to local area plans that zoning happens. No one has a greater understanding of that than the people living in the locality. There are checks and balances in this area and they should be in place when it comes to the ability of people to remove from the process people whose decisions they do not approve of. That is what our democracy is supposed to be about.

There can be conflicts with An Bord Pleanála. There is the question of whether it should be entirely independent but there is a value in it being independent. There is no rush to create more quangos. If we examine the cost of our not having proper regulation in place, are we prepared to repeat that mistake? There are areas where regulation gives a financial benefit over time. I would favour an independent body rather than being hooked on a body that has a responsibility to make decisions and have regard to them but that does not have to take on board the plans. I consider that to be a conflict with An Bord Pleanála and that is a concern I have. The National Roads Authority provides a better example in this respect. There has been great frustration over the years about where it was separated off, where it went too far in terms of a democratic oversight or the lack of it.

I presume I will have an opportunity to make a submission separately and to speak on the second item on the agenda into which the Minister of State has strayed.