Ms Ciara Staunton:

I will begin with the final point. Deputy Tóibín inquired as to what constitutes a real and substantial risk. We have addressed this on numerous occasions. We must trust their opinions. On the matter of probability, there is a real and substantial risk to the life of the woman at some point during the pregnancy. That is what is a real and substantial risk. As Ms Schweppe stated, doctors make these decisions all the time. They do not really deal in percentages and they base their decisions on their clinical judgment and experience. We must trust and respect their decisions.

Deputy Timmins referred to suicide and whether it should be included. The discussion in this regard is actually relevant because that is the law. If a woman is suicidal as a result of her pregnancy, she is entitled to an abortion. Whether we include it is not debatable. We must include it.

Reference was made to the 12th and 25th amendments to the Constitution. The 12th amendment related solely to suicide and it was very clearly rejected. The other two amendments were passed. The people clearly indicated that they were happy with the amendments relating to travel and information but that they were not happy with that which related to suicide. There has been a great deal of academic commentary on why the 25th amendment was rejected. Again, the discussion in this regard is irrelevant because the amendment - which also dealt with suicide - was rejected. The people rejected it and this reinforced their position on the 12th amendment.

Senator Walsh also referred to suicide. I repeat what I stated earlier, namely, that it is already catered for and that the threat of suicide must be included. We have a very different regime from that which obtains in the UK. We are concerned here with an extremely narrow test. The UK is completely different and we should not look to what has happened there. We are referring to situations where there is a real and substantial risk to the life of a woman. That is not abortion on demand and it should never ever be seen as such. The only time an abortion is lawful in this jurisdiction is when there is a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother. I really cannot overstate that.

Deputy Terence Flanagan referred to language relating to the mother and child. Our Constitution includes the term "unborn". I am of the view that we should follow the Constitution and opt for the terminology used in it. I did not hear the Deputy's question in respect of my submission, as there was a lot of movement. If he wishes to repeat it, however, I would be quite happy to provide an answer.