Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Regarding the universities and institutes of technology, there was a considerable expansion in the number of posts of head of department. I am aware that something similar happened at local government level. I know from experience at local government level that this is contracting, that the numbers of such posts are reducing and that there are proposals in that regard which I imagine will lead to a landscape provision. Is there a contraction of the number of such posts?

I will make a political point. On Mr. Costello's point about the need to plan ahead on the issue of loans, that is not Government policy. It is an ideological policy issue. For example, a number of years ago the university heads wanted to reintroduce fees, while the institutes of technology did not. There was, therefore, a difference of opinion. Things may have changed since, but there is no Government policy on a loan scheme. Planning ahead would lead to something being brought in by stealth.

I raised an issue previously to which the answer was "Yes" and I wonder if the position has changed. Do colleges still offer free fees to the children of staff? They did this a few years ago and it was in connection with the registration fee and had to do with employment contracts. When I attended college, the children of staff of the universities did not have to pay fees. I am not sure what the position is in the institutes of technology.

Regarding the CAO points system, I realise there have to be reforms, but I make the point that the points system is a little like a democracy. Winston Churchill said democracy was not perfect, but it is still better than all of the other systems that have been tried. We used to have a system of matriculation, for example, or interviews, but largely they have been abolished. I am aware, however, that there are exceptions in regard to access programmes and so on.

One issue that came up in the report of the commission on the points system in 2000 was that colleges should have to publish the number of places offered through the CAO. We have no transparency in this regard. A number of courses have limited places and the points are high. What is the reasoning behind that? Will the universities agree to this reform, which was recommended by the points commission in 2000?

Approximately half the student population attend IOTs. They have been an important part of our third level sector, as have universities, but that is not articulated well enough in public discourse. I attended both a university and an institute of technology to study and my family have worked in the IOT sector. Its importance lies in the way it has been so good over the years in the context of transfer, access and progress. I worked in DIT Bolton Street and I knew somebody who went from being an apprentice to doing a certificate, a diploma and a degree in engineering before going on to postgraduate level. Access was well provided for at that stage in the early 1990s by the sector.

With regard to the Bologna process, Professor Ryan mentioned that the EU ranking system would be different. While that will be an important move, it is essential that access, transfer and progression should be part of the ranking and it should not just be a league table. The social policy of the EU is important.